New Dress Regs 🤣

[Halifax Tar]

It’s hardly a metric for testing fitness, it was brought in purely because the old test was too hard and there were too many failures.

Care to support that position or is it just an uniformed opinion ?

I get motion sickness pretty easily, plus steaming around on old rusty boats doesn’t seem like a good time. I’d be happy with a tool box, an aircraft and issued cot for 6 months.

Don't feel bad, not everyone is cut out for it.

The old test was not harder. The issue is that it was a poor indicator of what was required. It was gender and age based which was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Haggis]

It’s hardly a metric for testing fitness, it was brought in purely because the old test was too hard and there were too many failures.

No, in fact it was brought in because the old test was out of date, no longer relevant and was gender, and age weighted. There's a huge thread on it here.

 

[PuckChaser]

No, in fact it was brought in because the old test was out of date, no longer relevant and was gender, and age weighted. There's a huge thread on it here.

So at risk of a further derailing, we replaced it with a modern test thats significantly easier and is still weighted by age and gender...

 

[Haggis]

So at risk of a further derailing, we replaced it with a modern test thats significantly easier and is still weighted by age and gender...

Unless it's changed significantly since I retired (and I was one of the FORCE test lab rats), the FORCE test was never weighted by age or gender. You either completed the task in the time allotted or you didn't, regardless of gender, rank, age MOSID or DEU.

 

[SupersonicMax]

So at risk of a further derailing, we replaced it with a modern test thats significantly easier and is still weighted by age and gender...

The pass/fail criteria are the same for all. The incentives are based on where your score relates to people within your age group within your gender category. Given there is absolutely no advantage in doing more than pass (other than get a T-shirt and a pin), can’t say the test is weighted by age and gender…

 

[Haggis]

The pass/fail criteria are the same for all. The incentives are based on where your score relates to people within your age group within your gender category. Given there is absolutely no advantage in doing more than pass (other than get a T-shirt and a pin), can’t say the test is weighted by age and gender…

Okay... that's new.

 

[btrudy]

I suspect the rules about what footwear you need to wear with the skirt will prevent guys from doing it for a laugh. Women can't wear ankle boots with the skirt now, so I doubt ankle boots with skirts will be allowed when the new rules come out. If a bunch of guys want to buy pumps and learn to walk in them for the "entertainment" of wearing a skirt, all the more power to them. I'm sure if/when they get the reaction they wanted they will go right back to trousers.

Under the current rule women can wear Oxfords with their skirts, so that's an option for guys who don't want to buy pumps to wear with the skirts. Personally I'm considering doing it merely because the "reaction" I want is to not sweat my arse off when I'm working in a building that has grossly inadequate AC during the summer.

Whatever the new rules will be, there will still be rules about what can be worth with what, and when it can be worn.

Indeed, the main thrust of the new rules seems to be "if it doesn't cause a safety issue, go ahead and wear it".

This to me seems quite logical. The purpose of the CAF is to bring violence to the enemy; if a rule isn't helping you do that, get rid of it.

 

[PuckChaser]

Unless it's changed significantly since I retired (and I was one of the FORCE test lab rats), the FORCE test was never weighted by age or gender. You either completed the task in the time allotted or you didn't, regardless of gender, rank, age MOSID or DEU.

It started that way, then they weighted it. At one point, you even got more PER points based on your score. Now it's basically to win a Hoodie and a pin.

Despite the junk prizes, the test is still weighted. Take your score, flip the gender and see where you land. That's weighting by gender, regardless of the semantics.

 

[SupersonicMax]

It started that way, then they weighted it. At one point, you even got more PER points based on your score. Now it's basically to win a Hoodie and a pin.

Despite the junk prizes, the test is still weighted. Take your score, flip the gender and see where you land. That's weighting by gender, regardless of the semantics.

The pass/fail criteria, the ones you need to hit to meet UoS are NOT gender/age weighted.

 

[PuckChaser]

Which is a semantic argument, if the levels above pass fail don't matter, they shouldn't exist. When they do exist, it means the test results are weighted by age and gender.

 

[brihard]

If I understand right there’s the FORCE test for everyone, but then additionally the FORCE Combat for some/all of the army or something like that?

 

[Remius]

The pass/fail criteria, the ones you need to hit to meet UoS are NOT gender/age weighted.

Exactly.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Which is a semantic argument, if the levels above pass fail don't matter, they shouldn't exist. When they do exist, it means the test results are weighted by age and gender.

The incentive levels were brought in to motivate people to do more than the bare minimum. The idea is that if you are trying to do more than the minimum, you’d train for it and hopefully live a healthier lifestyle. They are meant to… incentivize. They don’t matter in term of standards.

 

[Underway]

The pass/fail criteria are the same for all. The incentives are based on where your score relates to people within your age group within your gender category. Given there is absolutely no advantage in doing more than pass (other than get a T-shirt and a pin), can’t say the test is weighted by age and gender…

One incentive is that one of the advanced promotion criteria is based on getting a minimum Bronze (or Silver depending on the Formation Commander). And there are certain score cut-offs you need to keep for specific trades IIRC like Clearance Diver (or maybe they have a different test... I'm not sure anymore). But generally no. Just pass the thing any way you can.

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I was flipping through Twitter as one does and saw a video of a young woman gunner for a Ukrainian SPH. Sparkle lip gloss, long nails with chipped sparkle nail polish just fucking givin'er. Load fire load fire load fire. Smile a mile wide as she's doing it. Blows a kiss to the camera after the fire mission is done. Legend.

 

[RangerRay]

We might be fine with the new standards, but people who pay taxes and vote may have other ideas.

From a survey a few years ago on changes to RCMP grooming standards. People didn’t like Mounties with man-buns, face tats or ear hoops.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-man-bun-tattoo-survey-1.4612725

 

[btrudy]

Meh. They're paying us to do a job, they're not paying us to look pretty while doing so. Even if they might have certain preferences with regards to appearance, that doesn't oblige us to cater to them.

 

[Weinie]

Meh. They're paying us to do a job, they're not paying us to look pretty while doing so. Even if they might have certain preferences with regards to appearance, that doesn't oblige us to cater to them.

Ummmmmmmm..................................no. Check out Public Opinion Research, which PMO lives and dies for, and which within we (Canada) gets guided (politically led).

 

[Furniture]

Under the current rule women can wear Oxfords with their skirts, so that's an option for guys who don't want to buy pumps to wear with the skirts. Personally I'm considering doing it merely because the "reaction" I want is to not sweat my arse off when I'm working in a building that has grossly inadequate AC during the summer.

I suspect you will find the issued skirt no more comfortable, but if that's your plan have at it. I also strongly suspect you're in the minority of the males "planning" to try the new rules out.

People will push the limits of the rules because that's what people do, and they usually do it to get a reaction. I keep my sideburns at exactly the maximum length allowed because I prefer the look, and it annoys the "high and tight" crowd.

Indeed, the main thrust of the new rules seems to be "if it doesn't cause a safety issue, go ahead and wear it".

This to me seems quite logical. The purpose of the CAF is to bring violence to the enemy; if a rule isn't helping you do that, get rid of it.

I have a feeling things won't be as much of a free-for-all as some are hoping. I bet the silliness of toques only with gloves, and other fun rules will exist still. It seems to be more about removing gendered rules, and some outdated fashion choices, than it is about removing rules altogether, based on the leaked information.

 

[Haggis]

I bet the silliness of toques only with gloves, and other fun rules will exist still.

It's been discussed here at length and some people still don't get it. If you wear a toque without gloves, people die.

 

[kev994]

And there are certain score cut-offs you need to keep for specific trades IIRC like Clearance Diver (or maybe they have a different test... I'm not sure anymore). But generally no. Just pass the thing any way you can.

I’m somewhat familiar with the dive manual as it applies to SARTechs (I supervise a bunch of them), as of a couple months ago it still refers to the Expres test as the fitness standard. FWIW SARTech went to the FORCE test a few years ago.