New Helicopters: Griffon/ Griffon Varient?

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

I go to flight college in Ontario,
Someone told me today that the government has recently agreed to buy new helicopters of the Griffon variety,
He told me that his cousin was in acquisitions and the deal hadn't been made public yet.
This deal would surprise the hell out of me and the whole story kinda set off my BS alarm because what would be the point of a helicopter that cannot operate in our current area of operations. Plus there most be a better design of helicopter since we bought the griffons, plus i mean something would have probably been said on this site that I would have seen.
I'm not trying to start another discussion about the Griffons. I just wanna know if anyone heard anything about new helicopters.

PS thanks to the cf-18 pilot who did the burner takeoff for those of us in the tower today, that was neat.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

ps: I know about the proposed griffon refit to take care of the Chinooks, he ment real life brand new aircraft from the factory with new plane smell still about them.

 

[geo]

rumors, rumors and more rumors.
We own CH146 Griffons.
We own EH 101s for SAR
We own Sea King helicopters for SAR
We have ordered some Sikorsky S92s for the Frigates
We have placed orders for Chinooks - though the AF now want to make changes - to make em more pertinent to what they want to do with them (hope that ties in with what the Army wants to do with them)

If we posess Chinooks, a gun ship of sorts (eg:AH-1W super cobra) might be advisable.....

Other than that..... don't think we have anything else that has been released to the public.

 

[Strike]

I go to flight college in Ontario,
Someone told me today that the government has recently agreed to buy new helicopters of the Griffon variety,
He told me that his cousin was in acquisitions and the deal hadn't been made public yet.
This deal would surprise the hell out of me and the whole story kinda set off my BS alarm because what would be the point of a helicopter that cannot operate in our current area of operations. Plus there most be a better design of helicopter since we bought the griffons, plus i mean something would have probably been said on this site that I would have seen.
I'm not trying to start another discussion about the Griffons. I just wanna know if anyone heard anything about new helicopters.

PS thanks to the cf-18 pilot who did the burner takeoff for those of us in the tower today, that was neat.

With a remark like that, you may end up getting just that.  PLEASE read other posts about the Grif before saying stuff like that.

As to the chances of getting more Grifs, the closest thing is the refit of the ones being used for training in Portage.  And that's OLD news.

 

[Inch]

rumors, rumors and more rumors.
We own CH146 Griffons.
We own EH 101s for SAR
We own Sea King helicopters for SAR
We have ordered some Sikorsky S92s for the Frigates
We have placed orders for Chinooks - though the AF now want to make changes - to make em more pertinent to what they want to do with them (hope that ties in with what the Army wants to do with them)

If we posess Chinooks, a gun ship of sorts (eg:AH-1W super cobra) might be advisable.....

Other than that..... don't think we have anything else that has been released to the public.

Sea Kings are not used for SAR primarily, trust me. We do secondary SAR when the Cormorants are down, but our primary role is support to the navy which the H92's will take over when they come online in 2 years.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

ok, I'll try to stay in my lane.... anyone wanna talk about cessna's lol? 

so is the definitive answer no?

 

[geo]

Ok inch... only intended to point out the range of what we had and what we we have on order.  Speculating on acquiring more utility helicopters didn't make much sense.

 

[h3tacco]

Just another note we have not purchased CH-47's. We have signed an advanced contract award notice, which essentially means we have indicated to boeing that they are the only supplier who can meet our requirements. We are currently in negotiations with boeing. When we officially sign a contract it will be made public. This is the same situation as the C-130J/Lockheed Martin.

 

[childs56]

Who knows. You may be right about the purchasing of new 412's. From my understanding what numbers  we have already are stretched out doing the mission it does now. Adding a few specific airframes to the fleet may not be a unplasuable thing.

Remember just cause the guys on here are in the military, former military does not make them the expert. They are passed on alot of info via their Chain of Command, but not all the info.
If you happen to know a person who works for the Company who is responsible for the bidding of such aircraft or other equipment then you may know sooner then the general military does.
This isnt a slight agaisnt any of you, but this may mean a new step in the equipment purchase.

If you hear anything else about this subject keep us posted. This may turn out like the Were going to buy Chinooks, (told by the expierance in the know people no way in heck that would happen) 3 years later the deal is going through.

 

[Loachman]

Right. We're clueless.

We currently have more airframes than people to fly them and maintain them.

The "stretched out" bit is a people problem, not an airframe one.

There is no need to add airframes that we can neither fly nor maintain.

There is no need to buy more of something that is inadequate for its job.

Due to the lack of people, there will have to be a reduction in the CH146 fleet in order to fly and maintain Chinook when it appears.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

how come its alright when loachman says it but not me?  ;D

There is no need to buy more of something that is inadequate for its job.

 

[Loachman]

There could be some interesting answers to that.

I hope that you get off lightly.

What college? Seneca?

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

I was just kidding around, Confederation.
Its a good program, I'm liking it.

 

[Loachman]

Where is that?

 

[Sparkplugs]

It's in Thunder Bay, Loachman...  ask him about Cessnas, hehe, I spent a few years in Thunder Bay.

As far as the Griffons not being suitable for overseas flying, that's no one's fault but our own.  We put so much stuff in them that they're now just too heavy to fly in the heat.

However, the Bell 412, which is what the Griffon is before we load it up, is more than capable of flying overseas, and does so constantly.  I know personally 2 civvie pilots who spent a couple of summers in Abu Dhabi and Afghanistan flying 412s in all kinds of weather, and never had any problems with them.  But add in all the radar, tons of avs stuff, armour, and you've overloaded it for its purpose.  That's why ours aren't over there.  It's not the 412, it's that we bought a machine too small to handle all the add-ons we needed for it.

 

[Loachman]

Abu Dhabi's elevation is 88 feet.

What were these guys lifting, and for how long were they flying on one fuel load? Were they operating into and out of large, flat surfaces with no obstructions? Were they able to conduct leisurely take-offs and landings, or did they have to arrive and depart hurriedly due to the threat of being shot at?

There are considerable differences between military and civilian flying.

What radar do you think that we have? There's a radar altimeter and Doppler, and they're not that heavy. There is no "tons of avs stuff". We have three radios, one GPS, a cheapy three-axis autopilot, and standard navaids. No unusual weight there.

Yes, it's our fault - we bought a helicopter completely unsuitable for the role.

The role includes flying eight troops with combat equipment. Not too much to ask. It's underpowered for that for the conditions found in this country, even without armour kits.

It's also not particularly robust or reliable. When I left yesterday, we didn't have a single one serviceable.

 

[dapaterson]

Loachman:

The Griffon was selected because it met all the key operational characteristics required:

(1) Built in Quebec.

 

[Loachman]

It was built in Marcel Masse's home riding - one of the last PC defence ministers.

The Twin Hueys were showing their age and did in fact need replacement.

It looked like a Twin Huey.

Commonly heard buzzphrases when the contract was announced: "It's an off-the-shelf purchase - it will work", and "We don't need to do a user trial".

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

There was a sea king flying out Thunder Bay today? any word on why that was there?

 

[Loachman]

Luck?

Sorry, Sea King Guys...