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New Leatherman

DexOlesa

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I was just surfing through threads this morning. There are tons of old threads on Multi-tools and knives. Read most if not all of them. My Leatherman is pretty old getting some rust (its just a hand me down from my grandfather). I see leatherman has official Military tools now the MUT, looks like its kinda gimmiky. Wondering if anyone actually has one of these?
http://www.leatherman.com/products/product.asp?id=465&f=74&c=73
 
DexOlesa said:
looks like its kinda gimmiky.

No kidding... a punch to push the take-down pins for you? Some awkward hook thinger to pull the bolt carrier back for you (apparently the cocking handle isn't ideal for this?)...

I'm sure the quality of materials/craftsmanship is there but this thing is just a stupid idea...

I'll stick to the Wave
 
You're issued everything required to take care of your rifle. You don't need to buy anything.

It's not even high speed, just a gimmick. And when someone like Leatherman makes something with replaceable parts, it's because those parts have to be replaced. Normally, quite often and at above reasonable cost. Just my  :2c:
 
Kinda what I figured. I was definitely leaning towards the wave, charge, or surge anyways. Always been a leatherman carrier (basically cause thats what i inherited and what my grandfather always used) might look at a SOG though. I'd have to try them side by side.
 
ballz said:
No kidding... a punch to push the take-down pins for you? Some awkward hook thinger to pull the bolt carrier back for you (apparently the cocking handle isn't ideal for this?)...

To be fair,

The "awkward hook thing to pull the bolt carrier back" is not for pulling the bolt carrier out of the receiver for cleaning.  It's for clearing bolt override malfunctions.  I've never had one myself, but apparently you can clear use a mag or a regular multitool to clear those stoppages as well.

The "firearm disassembly punch" is also for taking apart things that are typically the responsibility of the weapons techs - not only for taking down the upper receiver or other tasks of first line maintenance as you're suggesting.

I'm not saying that this is a useful tool for the average rifleman. Like recceguy said: if you need it, you'll have it issued. I'm just saying that you shouldn't write it off as silly unless you know what it's supposed to do.
 
Wonderbread said:
as you're suggesting.

Watch the video at the link... I'm not suggesting anything... That's what the video shows them using both those tools for.

If there are weapons tech type uses for it, then yes for the most part I won't recognize them. But the video shows them using the "disassembly punch" to push the take-down pins, and it shows them using the "bolt override tool" (aka awkward hook thingy) to clear an obstruction in the chamber (I never said anything about using it to pull the bolt-carrier back for cleaning). The only thing they use it for in the video clip is to pull the bolt carrier back, which lets the brass/round fall out through the mag housing.

From the video (in a deep jtf2ninjasniper sophistimacated type voice): "The bolt override tool on the utility model allows for clearing a piece of brass or live round jammed between the chamber, charging handle, and the bolt carrier."

"The replaceable firearm disassembly punch makes for easy removal of take-down and retaining pins. The 1/8" standard punch can be used alone or with the hammer end of the MUT when more force is needed."

EDIT: I see now you were saying there are also other uses in addition to the ones I mentioned. My bad. But you would think if those were what they intended it to be used for, they would advertise *that*, not this stupid stuff.
 
ballz said:
it shows them using the "bolt override tool" (aka awkward hook thingy) to clear an obstruction in the chamber (I never said anything about using it to pull the bolt-carrier back for cleaning). The only thing they use it for in the video clip is to pull the bolt carrier back, which lets the brass/round fall out through the mag housing.

From the video (in a deep jtf2ninjasniper sophistimacated type voice): "The bolt override tool on the utility model allows for clearing a piece of brass or live round jammed between the chamber, charging handle, and the bolt carrier."

Fair.

I assumed you were talking about cleaning because you mentioned that the charging handle would do just as well.  Clearing a bolt override malfunction requires both the charging handle to be pulled back and something to be inserted through the ejection port to push the bolt back from the inside.  That something can be the corner of a mag, a regular leatherman, or this specific leatherman tool.  With the bolt held back from the inside, you can slam the charging handle back forward to free the brass that caused the stoppage.

Again, this has never happened to me before, but apparently it's not super-uncommon.
 
Wonderbread said:
Fair.

I assumed you were talking about cleaning because you mentioned that the charging handle would do just as well.  Clearing a bolt override malfunction requires both the charging handle to be pulled back and something to be inserted through the ejection port to push the bolt back from the inside.  That something can be the corner of a mag, a regular leatherman, or this specific leatherman tool.  With the bolt held back from the inside, you can slam the charging handle back forward to free the brass that caused the stoppage.

Again, this has never happened to me before, but apparently it's not super-uncommon.

Well I'll be honest I was thinking it was the same as a typical "obstruction in the chamber" type stoppage where you just pulled the bolt back (which is why I mentioned the charging handle) and engaged the bolt catch.

(This next bit is just out of curiosity) I think I heard of the stoppage you are talking about here on army.ca by a poster who deployed. It was in a discussion about handling drills (PAM vs Gunfighter I think?) and he said there was no current drill to remedy it, and said (something to the effect of) "no matter how much shaking you do, you will not shake the casing/round loose." Is that the same thing you are talking about?
 
Possibly.

It could have been a charging handle impingement malfunction, where an empty case fails to extract properly and gets partially  lodged in the carrier key channel, pinned between the bolt face and the inside of the charging handle.

A bolt override is when an empty casing fails to extract and gets caught in the carrier key channel, over the bolt itself, and pinned between the gas key and the inside of the charging handle.  It's possible that a double feed will also override the bolt.

Both these stoppages require space to be made in the carrier key channel, by bringing the bolt to the rear and the charging handle forward.  The simplest way to do this is to pull the charging handle back, locking the bolt to the rear, pushing the charging handle back forward, and giving the rifle a good shake.

Sometimes though, the casing is jammed so tightly between the bolt and the charging handle that you won't be able to get the bolt far enough back to lock it.  In this case you need to pull the bolt back as far as you can, then stick something through the ejection port or mag housing to hold it in place. This takes the pressure off the charging handle, allowing you to slam it forward to create enough space for the empty casing to fall out.

If it's jammed so tight that you can't get the bolt back at all by pulling the charging handle, you'll have to close the buttstock and "mortar" the rifle by taking a knee, holding the rifle up and down like a mortar, and slamming the butt against the ground. Simultaneously, you're holding the bolt back the charging handle so that the force of each time you mortar the butt against the ground the bolt is getting a little farther to the rear.  When you think you've brought the bolt back far enough, you can hold it in place by sticking your finger, the corner of a mag, or a multitool through the ejection port or mag housing.  Then it's a matter of slamming the charging handle back forward, creating the space for the casing to shake out.

Keep in mind this is all theory to me.  I've never had to do this in real life and I can only imagine what would happen if I tried to mortar a rifle on a CF range.  I-6 knows about this stuff.  I'm sure he'll be along to sort me out if I'm sending the wrong info...
 
DexOlesa said:
Kinda what I figured. I was definitely leaning towards the wave, charge, or surge anyways. Always been a leatherman carrier (basically cause thats what i inherited and what my grandfather always used) might look at a SOG though. I'd have to try them side by side.

I had many issued Gerber's and they are crap, they brake all the time!!

I had a SOG issued to me in 2002 and have been carrying it everyday since, never broke a blade or anything, and I've put that thing trough hell in the field when I was armored, and again in here in Halifax in the winter doing temporary fixes on snow removal equipment.

I can't talk about Leatherman cuz I never used one, but my SOG never failed me, I'll always have one!
 
Rather than start a new topic, I wanted to share some insight on the " Bolt Override " malfunction.
First time I have ever seen it in person. Ironically, I also bought this multitool and scoffed at the " Bolt Override Tool ".
Pic below.

 
Themouse said:
I had many issued Gerber's and they are crap, they brake all the time!!

I had a SOG issued to me in 2002 and have been carrying it everyday since, never broke a blade or anything, and I've put that thing trough hell in the field when I was armored, and again in here in Halifax in the winter doing temporary fixes on snow removal equipment.

I can't talk about Leatherman cuz I never used one, but my SOG never failed me, I'll always have one!

What SOG model are you using?  I bought a SOG Paratool years ago, but I'd much rather have the Gerber.  The side folding pliers are always coming loose to the point of uselessness.  Got to the point I was packing a couple of wrenches to tighten it up daily.  Loctite didn't help.  When the Gerbers started being issued the SOG got shelved.  Not that I'm a big fan of the Gerber.
 
ballz said:
From the video (in a deep jtf2ninjasniper sophistimacated type voice): "The bolt override tool on the utility model allows for clearing a piece of brass or live round jammed between the chamber, charging handle, and the bolt carrier."
"

I have come across that one more then a few times.  the round gets spun around and wedged in that location you described.  You cant cock the wpn to clear it, from the ejection port most people try to pry the bolt back, generally with no success.  We found a quicker way other then sending it to a wpns tech or using that leathermans tool.  (point to note in this stoppage the cocking handle is generally always not fully locked on the upper receiver)  remove magazine, (while wpn is pointed down range) place suitable object, (bayonet, cleaning rod anything really) up the mag well to the face of the bolt carrier and try to pry the bolt to the rear with enough force to just hold it.  then push in the cocking handle forward.  The empty casing should pop loose. 

I may take a peek at that video for a closer look but don't really have the time too.

 
Ooops a bit, I made a comment before reading it fully. 

A subsequent post did clarify a bit more then I did, however it is essentially the same.  What we developed was for competitive shooting and had to work against time.  I have seen that stoppage as mentioned enough times to make me wonder if we should include it in the PAM.  However in my experience most of the wpns having this stoppage are used in rifle team or competitive shooting.  Where they modify the ejector spring by removing a coil or two.  If that is the reason then it makes sense that if your ejector spring is going or really dirty it could cause the same issue by not clearing the empty casing from the upper receiver. 

I have outside of tricked out wpns noticed it on a range and Trg but it could of been a wpn or bolt used by a team.  It has never gotten to the point of mortaring the wpn. ( I would probably try that if no troops were around but if they were it would be off to the wpns tech's
 
I would recommend Leatherman. I recently bought a leatherman free style. Works great.
 
I have a MUT. I like it.

I have found the carbon scraper legitimately useful and use it often. The punch for taking out pins is handy if you need it, and I've used it for other purposes as well.  I've used just about everything on the MUT and found it works well.

Will you use the bolt overide tool?  I personally have never needed that feature. The hammer part is pretty useful though.

I needed a multi-tool when I bought it and if I had to get another one I would get another MUT.  I never really liked the issued one but it's free and gets the job done.

-Steve
 
keeping in mind I am still a civie so I haven't put my multi tools through  the rigors of Military life.  I  do love multi tools and spend alot of time outdoors they tend to come in handy.  So far im on my third leatherman and still have all 3,  all have performed above my expectations.  I've had 2 Gerbers 1 being an older issue model that I hated but I didn't write off the brand simply because it was pre-used.  I went and bought a mini gerber that performed worse then the old one right out of the package.

only thing I preferred on Gerbers where the blades.
 
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