New MBT(Leo 2, M1A2, or Challenger 2), new light tank (Stingray), or new DFSV (M8 or MGS)?

[Malcycee]

And you would be basing your opinion on your many years of tank time, I suppose?

Do you actually know what it's like to go 70 km/h in a tracked vehicle that weighs 50+ tons?  How about trying to stop?  Or track targets?  Or keep a grip on the stab as you move around streets and near obstacles?  What part of the track would you redesign to speed up the tank and what do you mean by "much" faster?  I'm intrigued.  Of course, as Mr. Majoor has pointed out, there are not a lot of places where you can actually get up to 70km/h without endangering yourself and others.  But don't let that little detail cloud your plan.

One thing that you haven't mentioned with a view to improving our fleet, based on all your tank expertise, of course, is communications.  Our tanks have a wonderful feature in their comms system called "listening silence".  This function, when enabled, permits the crew to listen to transmissions over the radio but prevents anyone in the crew from transmitting.  It is an excellent function when operating in periods where emissions are reduced for security reasons. 

It also prevents inexperienced crew members from keying on the net and making foolish transmissions when unsupervised.  Perhaps you should enable your own "listening silence" on this means.

Hear Hear CSA 105.
It would of course be great to have an MBT weighing 70tons plus at around 70mph able to knock off a gnats testicle at 2500metres but, as you rightly point out this would be near on impossible by today's technology.
Let us not forget, a Tank is a 'Weapons platform' and therefore must be able to 'fight'. I remember so well seeing the M1 and Leo2 sales films in the 80's. MBT's seemingly 'flying' all over the place banging off shot in all directions Leo's indexed reload facility hammering the gun up in the air after each shot. My only question was....."Have they hit anything?"  I would find it unrealistic no matter how clever at editing target hits into the film. CR 2 films are always realistic, as an MBT Commander I was always taught and practised 'Shooting on the move'. I even had to carry out engagements with the MA over the back decks, that in itself was a feat. All MBTs have limit switches for the gun kit. IF the MA should be in danger of fouling the hull during traverse, wham, the switches throw the gun into 'Auto elevate', given terrain and speed this would be a common occurence even at slower speeds and gun front but, at 70mph no FC computer could calculate for the speed with which the vehicle would encounter the terrain!!
A question about your comms systems, as I was an RAC Sigs School instructor or 'Bleep' to his mates. Do you use the same throat mic system as the Germans....you know the one? yes, the one that makes everyone using it sound like a Wookie off Star Wars?? I take it you've all heard of Britain's Bowman Knee top satnav/radio system??
I'm off now, you'll be relieved to hear, to Mauritius for a third attempt at wedlock. I look forward to 'Tanking' with you all when I return!!!! :skull:
Shouting down to the Infanteers "Come on you chaps, you can't expect to live forever" And away they went.
British Tank Commander, Cambrai 1917.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As I recall from Jane's overpriced rag ,the Jordanians are use a Swiss 120 MM smoothbore.I suspect barring the deployment of startrek type force fields.120 has a fairly long time before it exceeds it's best before date.
.Come to think of it 105 had a longer life then a lot of people thought it would.

 

[a_majoor]

Just a little side note about going real fast in a fighting vehicle: we can do that already.

It's called an attack helicopter.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Just a little side note about going real fast in a fighting vehicle: we can do that already.

It's called an attack helicopter.

And it hurts less too! ;D

 

[Red 6]

Top speed in an armored vehicle is in my opinion basically meaningless. Horsepower-to-weight ratio is a much more meaningful expression of a tank's cross country mobility. When you think about it, vehicles in combat formations are never going at top speed since they have to maneuver together and maintain formation. In the defense, dash speed is important in displacing to alternate and supplementary position but still tanks hardly ever reach top speed. I knew some of the Soldiers back in the 80s who crewed the tanks the Army used for its commercial of "the flying M1". They broke a bunch of torsion bars before they got just the right shots for the commercial, among other parts both mechanical and human. :tank:

 

[TCBF]

Your Flying M1 story sounds like the Flying Leopard story from a firepower demo one year at our Combat Training Centre - we have  a shot that's been copied, reproduced, put on T-shirts, emailed around forever, made into screensavers, everything.  Good advertisement for the speed and violence aspect of the Corps.  Too bad the vehicle was pretty much N/S once it landed.  I think Lance W was there for that one - Hey Lance, did that one have to be A-framed back? 

- Lance was certainly at the Armour School, and because of an NCO shortage, I was loading and the US Army exchange SFC was crew-commanding.  This would be the spring of 1994 or 1995.  Or both.

- The tank did fine, but my hand got a bit sore when the CO-AX bin sprung from the turret wall and landed on the HESH round my hand was resting on.   I did have a videocam gun-taped to the top of a 524 set, and the resulting footage was cool: When the tank landed I disappeared from the frame and the breech went up and down like crazy.

-Edit: Changed dates above to 1994, 1995. 

 

[Franko]

That particular shot was on Staunch Gladiator 2000. The first time it was attempted did exactly what CSA said....blew torsion bars.

Regards

 

[TCBF]

Well, if it was a Leo C1, it was an earlier SG shot (1990s) - a Leo C2, a later shot.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I did the jump in 93 and 94, Tom, you and Steve must have been 95 or 96.  Same jump every year, and we never broke any torsion bars.

Still think it was one of the stupidest things ever done.......

 

[George Wallace]

Remember Guys.......Torsion Bars are strange animals.  They will break whenever they want to.  I have walked into an empty hangar and heard a large bang like a gunshot and all it was was a torsion bar on a tank that decided it was time to snap.  They break even when the vehicle is parked.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No doubt you were blamed as you were the nearest!! 

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Of course, jumping tanks full of ammo just to show off never weakened the torsion bars...... :

I've seen them go as well after the tank sat for a week.  Strange things indeed.  Mind you, they're always under tension, even sitting.  Actually, more tension when they are stationary!

 

[TCBF]

Especially when the sun comes up and hits the tank after a frosty night.  Sitting on the turret with a steaming canteen cup of coffee in one hand and two hard boiled eggs in another and SPLANG!

WTF?  "Rats" says the driver.  "Oh well, at least we" SPLANG! "Oh No!" says the driver.  "If that last one was in the wrong place, we are grounded!"

...and we were.

 

[Canadian Mind]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is a torsion bar, and what purpose does it serve the tank if the damn thing breaks so easily?

I'm no mechanic, but i'm pretty sure it has to do with the drive system... after that i don't have a clue.

 

[Red 6]

The road wheels on the hull are what support the weight of a tracked vehicle and they ride on trailing arms that are attached to torsion bars, which are big steel bars that bear the weight of the vehicle. A drive sprocket is linked to the transmission and actually turns the tracks. An idler wheel on the other end of the hull helps keeps track tension constant and most armored vehicles have return rollers on top to support the weight of the treads.

 

[a_majoor]

http://www.innerauto.com/Automotive_Definitions/Torsion_Bars/

Torsion Bars
  Torsion bar suspension uses the flexibility of a steel bar or tube, twisting lengthwise to provide spring action. Instead of the flexing action of a leaf spring, or the compressing-and-extending action of a coil spring, the torsion bar twists to exert resistance against up-and-down movement. Two rods of spring steel are used in this type of suspension. One end of the bar is fixed solidly to a part of the frame behind the wheel; the other is attached to the lower control arm. As the arm rises and falls with wheel movement, the bar twists and absorbs more of the road shocks before they can reach the body of the car. The bar untwists when the pressure is released, just like a spring rebounding after being compressed.

Adjusting the torsion bars controls the height of the front end of the vehicle. The adjusting bolts are located at the torsion bar anchors in the front crossmember. The inner ends of the lower control arms are bolted to the crossmember and pivot through a bushing.

 

[TCBF]

;D

1. Stick a thumbtac through the center of a paper plate.
2. Lay the paper plate on the floor, thumbtac pointing up.
3. Ensuring your (insert relationship here) is wearing rubber soled shoes or boots, have her stand on the plate so the tac embeds in the ball of her shoe, close to the toes.
4. Have her then lie on the bed, face down, with her paper plated foot hanging down over the end of the bed at a natural angle.
5. The paper plate is a roadwheel set, her foot is the support arm and her leg is the torsion bar.
6. Push her foot gently away from it's natural dangle - moving the plate up higher from the floor. 
7. Release the foot, notice the muscles in her leg (the tortion bar) which resisted the pressure you applied to her foot, now move the foot back to it's natural position. 
8. That is how a tortion bar absorbs shock then returns to it's 'tuned' position.
9. If she had seven legs, you could do a whole side of a Leopard or Abrams tank.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Now that was a truly a tragic story . :crybaby:

 

[ironduke57]

Just found something regarding speedy tank´s:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ94g6nDNo8

TV report from an BW Leo2 training session.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[solidarnosc]

Some recent pics of the Pandur II being tested in Austria with CT-CV system. Portugal is interested in buying 33 of them.

CT-CV on AMV recently tested in Finland

And ofcourse an older pic on Piranha III tested in UK.