New Ontario Government 2018

[FJAG]

The following article from CNBC outlines the critical issues respecting CEOs pay.

Since 1978, and adjusted for inflation, American workers have seen an 11.2 percent increase in compensation. During that same period, CEO's have seen a 937 percent increase in earnings. That salary growth is even 70 percent faster than the rise in the stock market, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
. . .
"CEOs are getting more because of their power to set pay, not because they are more productive or have special talent or have more education," says the report. "Exorbitant CEO pay means that the fruits of economic growth are not going to ordinary workers, since the higher CEO pay does not reflect correspondingly higher output."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/heres-how-much-ceo-pay-has-increased-compared-to-yours-over-the-years.html

For years I've believed that as shareholders (both public and private) we've allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the executive leadership/management profession into believing that they are worth the exorbitant compensation that they are demanding. They aren't. It's time to readjust their expectations downward.

:cheers:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The following article from CNBC outlines the critical issues respecting CEOs pay.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/heres-how-much-ceo-pay-has-increased-compared-to-yours-over-the-years.html

For years I've believed that as shareholders (both public and private) we've allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the executive leadership/management profession into believing that they are worth the exorbitant compensation that they are demanding. They aren't. It's time to readjust their expectations downward.

:cheers:

Agreed, and the rot is not confined to the corporate world.

 

[Jarnhamar]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ont-minister-criticized-for-saying-he-wore-bulletproof-vest-in-toronto-neighbourhood-1.4019099
An Ontario minister tasked with fighting racism is being criticized by his political opponents for a comment that NDP Leader Andrea Horwath calls racist.

The minister pointed out that he wore a bulletproof vest during the police ride-along.

"I went out to Jane and Finch, put on a bulletproof vest and spent 7 o’clock to 1 o’clock in the morning visiting sites that had previously had bullet-ridden people killed in the middle of the night," Tibollo said during question period at Queen’s Park on Wednesday.

Somebody get this man a white sheet.

Just kidding, NDP's weak ass effort to stay in the news.

 

[PuckChaser]

I guess he was just using his white privilege to stay alive in a city where people shoot up playgrounds in broad daylight with illegal guns.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm guessing it was a requirement to wear it for the ride along. Insurance rules.

Perhaps the dippers figure only military and police should have vests. Goes with their only military and police should have guns. Anyone else wearing a vest, NGOs, UN Observers, the Ontario Environmental SWAT team, etc are all racist.

Horvath is portraying her party as a bunch of screaming me me's. She's going to have everyone rolling their eyes and ignoring their chicken little speeches, even before the Legislature returns to normal sitting.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yea, the police asked him too. The NDP do love their race baiting tactics.

 

[mariomike]

I've never seen a politician in Toronto wear a vest to a 9-1-1 call. But, I've been retired for over nine years.

Perhaps that is now the TPS SOP?

QUOTE

Jul 19, 2018

He ( Toronto Mayor John Tory ) said he’s been on around 10 police ride-alongs over the years and has never requested a bulletproof vest nor has he been asked to wear one.

Tory also noted that photos appear to show Premier Doug Ford on the same ride-along as Tibollo, but without the extra protection.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/07/19/bulletproof-vest-tory/

END QUOTE

I never wore a vest.  But, I never criticised co-workers who did.

To keep the Toronto hysteria in perspective,

Canada’s Most Dangerous Places 2018
https://www.macleans.ca/canadas-most-dangerous-places/
See how your community ranks

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Who cares. Perhaps he wanted to see what it was like. I wonder if he asked for it or was offered a chance to wear it. At any rate, Horvath and her gang are really stupid for even trying this stunt. All it does is show how dishonest, deceitful and partisan her party is. It's already forgotten.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've never seen a politician in Toronto wear a vest to a 9-1-1 call. But, I've been retired for over nine years.

Have you seen many politicians on ride alongs?

Perhaps that is now the TPS SOP?

In a statement, Toronto police say Tibollo was given the bullet-proof vest as a cautionary measure. In the photo, the vest was also emblazoned with the minister’s name and the word “POLICE.”

"When police do a ride along, there is a safety assessment," a Toronto police spokesperson said in a statement. "Since we always err on the side of caution, there is a presumption that the person doing the ride along will be provided with a vest."

From personal experience it's extremely obnoxious when you're forced to bring a civilian around a dangerous area and they don't listen to your instructions or precautions. *cough* global TV reporer*cough*
Do you think maybe the minister should have said no to the police?

Seems like some Toronto EMS wear them
https://army.ca/forums/threads/102523/post-1079014.html#msg1079014

I never wore a vest.  But, I never criticised co-workers who did.

But your reply #11 in the above link you say did wear a vest, an external one.

Canada’s Most Dangerous Places 2018
https://www.macleans.ca/canadas-most-dangerous-places/
See how your community ranks

Western Canada sure sounds dangerous. Do you suppose there's some kind of reoccuring theme there or is it all random?

 

[mariomike]

But your reply #11 in the above link you say did wear a vest, an external one.

Did you bother to read Reply #6?

They gave us vests to try on at a CME ( Continuing Medical Education ). I had it on for five minutes and loathed every minute of it. It was very uncomfortable, and looked confrontational.
That's just my personal opinion. Not everyone felt that way. I see a lot of the younger guys wearing them now.

It was offered. I made my choice not to sign one out. But, I never criticised those who did.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=mariomike ]
Did you bother to read Reply #6?

It was offered. I made my choice not to sign one out. But, I never criticised those who did.
[/quote]
I sure did. When you said you wore an external one it didn't sound like you meant only for 5 minutes. My bad.

 

[pbi]

Who cares. Perhaps he wanted to see what it was like. I wonder if he asked for it or was offered a chance to wear it. At any rate, Horvath and her gang are really stupid for even trying this stunt. All it does is show how dishonest, deceitful and partisan her party is. It's already forgotten.

Quite apart from this vest business, is the evident truth of what he actually said in the House. I watched his initial comments and then his refusal to climb down in the face of self-righteous howling by the opposite benches. So, here I go, sailing close to the wind...

I don't know the Minister from Adam, and I'm not very right wing, but what I heard him say about that district, and about who kills who with guns in TO, was true. It's just that we seem very leery of actually tagging the problem to the community in question, lest we be accused of...well--you know what.

This problem is not new. When I was a young Militia recruit in 1974, my section commander was a Metro Police constable in what I believe was then 13 Division, which covered the neighbourhood the Minister mentioned.  One day, in talking about work, he offered that: "in Jane and Finch we never go to any call with less than two cars". That was 44 years ago.

Since those days, the problem has not only gotten worse: it has spread to a portion of Scarborough, and out to Brampton and Mississauga. In my opinion, it can't just be shuffled off as an "immigrant problem". Most of Toronto's immigrant communities, even those who went through a violent phase, have moved onwards and mostly upwards. And, I bet, many of those involved are no longer immigrants but native-born Canadians. (Check out that 44 years figure...)

Considering who the targets of the violence normally are (not counting tragic collateral victims like Jane Creba) I have a difficult time swallowing the rationales constantly trotted out as to why this problem persists in this community. Many immigrant groups in this country have faced racism, nativism, and other bigotry. Not all of them have remained in such a terrible, lethal mess for so long. What is going wrong here?

The Minister had the courage to raise issues many people would rather not hear. And who knows, maybe the Tories can't do much to fix it. But, IMHO, the first step in fixing a problem is defining just what that problem is, as unpleasant as it may be to discuss it.

 

[mariomike]

When I was a young Militia recruit in 1974, my section commander was a Metro Police constable in what I believe was then 13 Division, which covered the neighbourhood the Minister mentioned. 

13 Division covers this area,
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/d13/neighbourhoods.php

You may have been thinking of 31 Division,
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/d31/neighbourhoods.php

 

[pbi]

13 Division covers this area,
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/d13/neighbourhoods.php

Yes: I looked at that TPS map before I posted. Maybe 13 Div boundaries are different now than they were in 1974. In any case, he was definitely speaking about the problem in Jane and Finch.

 

[mariomike]

Maybe 13 Div boundaries are different now than they were in 1974.

I was stationed in the Marlee ( between Dufferin and Bathurst ) and Eglinton area in 1972. It was 13 Division back then. It is still 13 Division.

West-end City of Toronto and Borough of York divisions started with a 1.

East-end City of Toronto and Borough of East York divisions started with a 5.

Borough of Etobicoke divisions started with a 2,

Borough of North York divisions started with a 3. ( That would include Jane and Finch. )

Borough of Scarborough divisions started with a 4.

That is the way Metro Police have numbered their divisions from 1957 to this day.

On Friday night, Mayor Tory went on a bike ride-along. Without a vest, "saying he has never donned a bulletproof vest in any of the ride alongs he's done before."

Ward 7 Councillor Mammoliti, "put on a bulletproof vest before getting into a squad car with officers."
http://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/news/tory-mammoliti-go-on-ride-alongs-with-police-friday-evening-1.4162037

Councillor Mammoliti has suggested the army should be called in to his ward. ( The army has not been called in to Metro since the 1999 snowstorm. )
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=phtTW6S2HsbAjwSV9pboCA&q=mammoliti+army&oq=mammoliti+army&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.1719.11707.0.13143.15.14.0.0.0.0.436.3333.0j4j2j3j3.12.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.12.3323.0..0j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i131k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.xgXpJPCej4k

Councillor Mammoliti once ran for mayor. But, dropped out after registering no more than 4% in public opinion polls.

 

[pbi]

Borough of North York divisions started with a 3. ( That would include Jane and Finch. )

OK, I got the Div number wrong. But my point remains: the Jane-Finch problem is an old one, and seems to have gotten worse.

 

[mariomike]

But my point remains: the Jane-Finch problem is an old one, and seems to have gotten worse.

I'm not an expert. This is just my opinion.

Metro Police deployed heavily into the Jane-Finch corridor, and other hot spots, because, "That is where the crime is." 

Quieter neighbourhoods complained they were paying for protection that was going elsewhere.

Why so much crime in the Jane - Finch community?  Sociological problems, education, DNA....who knows?  Most victims were fellow minorities, who appreciated and strongly supported Metro Police.  The Jane and Finch community supported police pay raises and benefits. And Metro police gave them the best service they could. 

Over the years, Toronto police culture seems to have changed from aggressively pursuing criminals to laying back in police cars, taking careful and lengthy reports.

When were you safer, taxpayers, then or now...?

See Carding (police policy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carding_(police_policy)
"Carding, which is officially known as the Community Contacts Policy, is an intelligence gathering policy of the Toronto Police Service involving the stopping, questioning, and documenting of individuals when no particular offence is being investigated."

 

[pbi]

Metro Police deployed heavily into the Jane-Finch corridor, and other hot spots, because, "That is where the crime is." 

Makes sense to me.

Quieter neighbourhoods complained they were paying for protection that was going elsewhere.

I think that would be a very narrow-minded response by people. For example, in my neighbourhood in west Kingston, I hardly ever see a cruiser unless it's called. But I know very well that Kingston has other neighbourhoods where there are calls every day and night, and a much higher police presence. (I volunteer with Victim Services, so I see a bit of it.)

But, to me, that's fine. Why would the police deploy their very limited resources and time in places where there is little demand? I don't want to see a cruiser wasted on a daily patrol of my quiet street, when I know there's only a few of them out there at all.

To me, it's like the Fire Department. As a property owner I pay the fire tax, but I've never had a fire call at my house. But I'm very happy that my fire tax pays for responses to places that do have fires, or medical calls, or gas leaks, or whatever. We all pay for the service, and we get it when we need it.

Why so much crime in the Jane - Finch community?  Sociological problems, education, DNA....who knows?  Most victims were fellow minorities, who appreciated and strongly supported Metro Police.  The Jane and Finch community supported police pay raises and benefits. And Metro police gave them the best service they could. 

This is the question I'm asking: why? And yes, I agree that there are thousands of decent citizens in Jane-Finch, and Scarborough, and Brampton who would like it all to just end so they can get on with life, and irritating people like me will stop asking these questions. I would guess that every ethnic community in this country that has gone through a violent phase also had lots of members who just wanted normal lives.

Those people aren't the problem, but I think they could be part of a solution. The police can't do it alone. They're just one instrument towards a solution

Over the years, Toronto police culture seems to have changed from aggressively pursuing criminals to laying back in police cars, taking careful and lengthy reports.

That seems like a bit of a broadside into the police. I will be the first one to say that there are things about police culture in Canada today which concern me, but to blame the police for the restrictions and burdens placed on them by an ever-mounting pile of regulations, procedures, laws, etc doesn't seem right to me. A police officer I knew in Thunder Bay told me that on average, with all the reporting and paperwork involved, on a typical shift they could handle about 3 or 4 incidents and then their shift was over. Much of their day was spent writing things. And that was back before I left 38 CBG in 2005.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

I think that would be a very narrow-minded response by people. For example, in my neighbourhood in west Kingston, I hardly ever see a cruiser unless it's called. But I know very well that Kingston has other neighbourhoods where there are calls every day and night, and a much higher police presence. (I volunteer with Victim Services, so I see a bit of it.)

But, to me, that's fine. Why would the police deploy their very limited resources and time in places where there is little demand? I don't want to see a cruiser wasted on a daily patrol of my quiet street, when I know there's only a few of them out there at all.

Police Dispatcher here, you'd be surprised (maybe not)of the ignorance from the general public when it comes to police and where they should or shouldn't be. For example the general public thinks that parking a unit all day and night at a park to deter teenagers from goofing off and smoking in said park is totally a valid use of that officers time and cost, instead of dealing with higher priority calls in the area, such as assaults, domestics, gun crime, etc.

Kind of funny but I'd rather deal with our "frequent flyers" and emergency call situations than deal with the general public (as much as I love putting in multiple calls a day for stuff like, "I smell marijuana from next door" or people calling on 911 for them losing their phone 2 weeks ago, or because the hotel they are at has different prices than what was advertised online, etc) for petty and dumb crap.

The way that police are spread out are in quadrants or "zones" as we call them. There are so many units per zone. No less than 2 officers per call at minimum unless its a belated incident and something like "Yeah, my car was broken into last night..he left behind his ID" and most of the time those types of calls get put through to an alternate response unit that deals specifically with belated incidents with no suspects. Unless specifically sent to walk a beat, there are no "areas" that officers are forced to go to, if they are doing pro-active policing then sure they'll sit on a particular street if they arent put on a call but most of the time they just drive around until being placed on a call.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I was doing a quick read of the Jane and Finch stuff. I came across an article saying that the problems started when there was a population boom. The area went from 3000 to 30'000 very quickly, too quickly for the infrastructure to cope with and it's never recovered. Foreshadowing for our refugee crisis in Toronto perhaps?