New Task for the Armoured Reserve?

[Infanteer]

Along the lines with the Trading Saber for Stealth debate and the fact that Reserve Armoured recce is a completely different world from Reg Armoured Recce (necessitating the Res world to make up its own niche that is non-existent in the Reg world), this article in the recent issue of the Army Journal revived an idea I've had for a while:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_09/iss_2/CAJ_vol9.2_10_e.pdf

Perhaps this is an organization which would allow the Reserve Armoured units to be of direct utility to deploying Regular Forces?  It is a mounted role, and it gives the Res guys both a context within the Res world (supporting Res Infantry units on ex) as well as having a task that is currently being employed by the Reg Force.  As well, it seems to jive with the idea of eliminating Res Brigades for combined arms battalions - something we've also seen discussed on these forums before.  This organization could easily fulfill a "combat support squadron" within a Reserve Combined Arms battalion.

Oh well, just an idea - thoughts?  Fire away.

 

[a_majoor]

I will need to read this again in some depth, but the same goal could be achieved with a DFSV platoon integrated in the Rifle Company or as part of Combat Support Coy. I don't see any intrinsic reasons that this capability needs to be "Armoured" at all, besides ownership of the G-wagons.

As a counter argument, integrating the Reserve Armoured Recce as formed troops and squadrons with the Regular force Coyote squadrons would make a lot more sense, given that the Coyotes can provide a sophisticated surveillance capability and direct fire overwatch, while the G-wagons provide a (limited) "mud recce" ability. )Arguments about "soccer mom recce" in SUV's have been hashed out in other threads, but this is what we have for now).  I believe there was a few experiments done along these lines with mixed troops or patrols of Coyotes and G-wagons (maybe a virtual troop on J-CATS[?]), anyway, I would think there is much more bang for the buck in exploring this line of thought.

 

[skydiver]

Infanteer..
What month/year/issue is that journal?
I am at work and the Baseline Gods (curses be upon them) have our security settings built to dissallow activex. I can't get that site but I have access to all the hard copies.

Doog

 

[Love793]

At the risk of rehashing an old argument, the role of Reserve Armoured units (as with all other PRes Units) must remain-Force Generation for the Reg force.  Unfortunately, due to the fact that we are not receiving training (with the exception of a very very small few) on Coyote and heaven forbid Leopards, we can not individually Augment the Reg Force units.  Currently with LDSH(RC) deploying a Sqn - of Leopards, and RCD Deploying Sqn- of Coyote to the sandbox this will cause a severe shortage of hard armd line serials in theatre during the upcoming task forces.  This is the time that reserve unit COs must be contacting their affiliated Reg counterparts to see what positions are being forcasted as requirements to fill, and start negotiating with them to get deployable soldiers on Dvr, Surv, Gunnery crses.
After this is rectified, then we can start dreaming up and reinventing the wheel as what roles we should be performing. My $.02

 

[Maybee]

For what it's worth the suggestion that Majoor made has been tried with some success at least once by my unit. The Coyotes set up in a screen and then tell the jeeps (no milcots or suvs please) to " go look at that". Works like a charm. The bonus is that if you get into a contact the worst that can happen is you lose a relatively inexpensive gwagon, vice the expensive Coyote. Further the Coyotes could back the Gwagons in any confrontation that lasted long enough and required their firepower.
Finally on a side note individual augmentation sucks. I have done two tours with one as an indiv augmentee and the other as part of one of composite P Res infantry coys (both to bosnia). Reservists IMHO perform better as a PL/TP sized unit integrated into a sub unit, or as a sub unit of their own. The Hybrid Gwagon/coyote formation has worked, could continue to work, and is worth a go if you ask me.
Cheers!

 

[RecceByForce]

    I’m going to reply to a few posts at once here, a-majoor's suggestions are good it is once again creating a niche to satisfy PRes regiments. Overseas G-Wagons no longer leave the compound so we wouldn't be employing the age old saying "Train as you fight". Now the good part about running an exercise like you suggested would be to get PRes units familiar with what there Reg force counterparts do and maybe spark component transfer interest.
    I think that reserves need to see what we do and regular force soldiers need to see reservists more frequently so they know there capabilities.
    I like Love793's idea of getting reservists in the coyote, but there is a major problem with it. Shortage of instructors.  With everyone getting ready to go overseas/backfill training there are very few instructors left to teach and when they do run course's its to qualify soldiers from the drivers hole so we can employ the next round of soldiers from battle school. So for this idea to be viable it would have needed to be implemented about 2-6 months ago when we had a brief moment of down time.

 

[Prd_Cdn]

You all bring up a great point. The PRes Armoured do not have a function in the CF. We are Recce but augmentees. We are Armoured but no Vehicles.
IMHO the army needs to get us the training we require to be equivalent to the Reg For standards. Now if that mean a PRes Soldier does not his/her qual for 2 years so be it unlike a 2 week wonder course, where its 6 weeks for the regs, as an example. Consider this, It is just the same as a Reg For Pers who gets the qual after 6 weeks and waits 2 yrs for promo. Difference is the PRes gets OJT, while conducting training, he/she recieves same qual over the same amount of time (2yrs) for example.
We need qual pers who can operate, gun and command Reg For vehs (Coyote, Leo) and not just pers who left the Reg For for a B Class. (LOL ANOTHER OPINION) in order for us to be taken seriously. I am a Coyote Driver only because my unit paid LdSH (RC) to run a course in 2001 (we paid for oil, fuel, maintenance etc) so me, 2 other MCpl's and 2 Sgts to teach my unit (never happened by the way).
With a lot of PRes soldiers being deployed (and killed) in operational theatre of combat the attitudes are changing, its gonna take ALONG time for the above mentioned to happen or if at all. Till then we will soldier on or get another trade.

Just my .02 cents :tank:

 

[Prd_Cdn]

:skull:
  Goddamn!! Well put and well said. I wish I could be that articulate. You said everything I thought. I have heard, seen all the things you said about the Armoured Corps.

Thank you!! (seriously)

 

[medaid]

JEBUS! I particulary agree witht he part which had to do with the medics overseas...but that's just my own opinion. It is such a waste to have a seasoned well trained MCpl MedTech commanding a Bison Amb while he/she could be underneath providing critical care to the wounded members.

 

[blacktriangle]

The PRes Armoured do not have a function in the CF.

Well that figures...
Honestly, does anyone see this changing within the next 5 years? Realistically?, or should I start the transfer...  :-[

Sorry if it sounds dumb, but if I'm going to train, I might as well train for something relavent.

Cheers,

Smith

 

[MPIKE]

S.Smith,

A lot of this thread and others involve the internal politics which have been around since I joined in '92.  The only difference was the talk was centered around deployment to Bosnia.  What is being talked/ranted/argued here should not disuade your goals of joining the CF.  Remember this, I have to remind myself at times, that most of this talk of roles, mission statements is way above our levels and are decided in back offices etc in NDHQ.  The CF has a multitude of personalities so, especially here, you should always source your info and scrutinize it.  Basically nothing here is gospel.

Looking at your profile, you will probably be heading to the QYRANGS?  If so you will learn basic soldiering its something that can be applied across the board to another trade.  Should you stay in the armour trade you will see the doctrine doesn't matter what type of vehicle platform you use.  Get in first , gain a threshold knowledge and form your own opinion.  There will be loads of time for you to fine tune your interests.  Side note: the Qyrangs will be ushering a new RSM next year who I know will makes things tick over there.

There is  relevance for Armoured recce still its just a lot of the media exposure has been infantry based and some of the bitching here can be misleading..  Look at this site, I think what you are seeing is the start of that change and I still think some exciting things will happen.

Good luck

 

[John Nayduk]

For what it's worth, we had the Director of Armour at our mess dinner on the 2nd of December.  He told us that the plan is to have the reserve RECCE units conduct the convoy escorts in Afghanistan.  The troop would be composite and do work up training and deploy together.