No Fitness Test?

[PMedMoe]

Whereas the beep test is more of a measure of how fast you can run 20 m.

Not true.  That's why each 20 meters is timed.  The shuttle run is to estimate VO2 max.  Unlike the 1.5 mile run we used to do, where you could run your butt off for the first half and then practically walk the rest and still make it under the time.  This did not estimate VO2 max accurately.

Mind you, the shuttle run is an indirect test, which is why it's only an estimate.

 

[Pusser]

Not true.  That's why each 20 meters is timed.  The shuttle run is to estimate VO2 max.  Unlike the 1.5 mile run we used to do, where you could run your butt off for the first half and then practically walk the rest and still make it under the time.  This did not estimate VO2 max accurately.

Mind you, the shuttle run is an indirect test, which is why it's only an estimate.

Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.

 

[PMedMoe]

Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.

Just as folks were disadvantaged by the 1.5 for the same reason.  The difference with the shuttle run is that it controls how fast (or slow) one is going.  If it weren't timed, I could see a lot of people possibly getting to higher levels by going faster at the beginning and slower at the end.

The real gripe is the turning. 

 

[MJP]

Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.

If you don't have the capacity (VO2 max) to run it within the time allotted then it doesn't matter how tall or short you are.  I have seen my share of tall legged folks do horrible at the 20 MSR and vice versa for short folks.  If one is a long legged track star then yes they are going to do better than the short rugby player.  I fall into the latter category and don't feel slighted that I can't run as fast as someone genetically different than me.

Just as folks were disadvantaged by the 1.5 for the same reason.  The difference with the shuttle run is that it controls how fast (or slow) one is going.  If it weren't timed, I could see a lot of people possibly getting to higher levels by going faster at the beginning and slower at the end.

The real gripe is the turning. 

True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.

There is a technique to turning? Huh, learn something new everyday.

 

[Pusser]

True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.

And herein lies what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the test.  PSP staff now run courses on how to pass the ExPres Test.  As opposed to course on how to get fit.  If you train only to pass a very specific test, then I would argue you're focusing in the wrong place and not accomplishing much.

 

[MJP]

And herein lies what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the test.  PSP staff now run courses on how to pass the ExPres Test.  As opposed to course on how to get fit.  If you train only to pass a very specific test, then I would argue you're focusing in the wrong place and not accomplishing much.

Very true and I agree that the 20 MSR is not a great indicator of overall fitness nor for that matter is the rest of the Expres test.  It really is only a predictor of universal CF test known as the Common Military Task Fitness Evaluation (CMTFE).  It is however the test that that has been developed and folks must pass to function in the military.  I don't see what the PSP staff do (by teaching folks how to do the EXpres) as a failure as I believe that fitness within a unit is a function of leadership and a command responsibility.  I am certainly not alone in that belief.  I use the PSP staff to enhance my own understanding, ensure that what I am doing is kosher and as a sounding board when I have a situation without a ready solution.  I don't use them exclusively to get my folks in shape as I feel that is my responsibility.

 

[JMacNavy]

Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.

If you believe that it is unfair to short-legged rugby player remember this, when it comes time for pullups and pushups you are at a great advantage with shorter arms. Just because a person has short legs does not give them an excuse not to keep up. The same can be said for us long legged, long arm soldiers when it comes to pushups.