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Non-Jumping Paras and Scots Sharing Kilts

Sadly I never met anyone from the Glorious Glosters. I did serve with a few RGBW (Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire regiment - merged in 1994) in Bosnia - good lads.

Now the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Light Infantry (LI added as an honour) are to form the 1st Bn the Rifles, along with the Devon & Dorset LI. The remaining battalions (2 - 5) will be made up by the Royal Green jackets and Light Infantry. Two TA battalions, 6 & 7, will be made up by the Rifle Volunteers (currently in the Stan) and the Royal Rifle Volunteers (just back from the Stan).

I haven't seen the new list of affiliations, but I know the PPLI were a sister regiment to the RGJ. Maybe the new regiment will be affiliated to both?
 
Geo is correct on the issue of the kilt production.  A regimental kilt will have no less than 8 yards of 16-17 oz worsted wool that is hand sewn.  (I can only hope that the MOD procurement has not tendered for a 10 oz fabric and machine made kilt - a machine made kilt for a Highland Regt is just so wrong).  For a 2000 odd kilt order that is a lot of fabric to weave and make into kilts.  And let's not forget that there is a shortage of kiltmakers that have the capacity to produce that many kilts in a short time frame (Perhaps Cohen's could handle the order but they would be producing machined kilts - they are the main manufacturers for Marks and Sparks).  The average time frame for a man's 17 oz hand sewn kilt with an average waist size of 40" and approx 21 - 11 cm set in pleats (that amount is usually for a casual kilt, not a regt one - the pleats tend to be closer together and in some kilts they are actually box pleats - those ones don't tend to wrinkle as much - it does take more fabric to make a box pleat kilt), is approx two weeks - if it's worked on 8 hours a day.  Then there is the design, spinning and knitting of the hose, all 4000 odd little sockies. That will keep some knitters busy for a while. Again, there is a proper weight to the wool and knitting technique (depending upon the final pattern chosen) Just a bit of cool kilt trivia, there is actually formula sets for setting in a pleat followed by all kilt makers. 

When I order a kilt, I am governed by the SOBHD regulatory criteria on weight, length, number of pleats and amount of fabric and it has to be hand sewn.  All my kilts are hand sewn and even in a rush order, I still can expect to wait 3 weeks for mine.  I was chatting to my kiltmaker over the holidays and on this issue, he said a fair number of kiltmakers are hesitant to bid for the contract as it would alienate them from their regular customers (dancers, pipebands, pipers and tourists/Hollywood celebs) by tying up their resources.  He didn't know if the contract also included repairs and maintenance which would further tie up their resources and make then an "all eggs in one basket kilt maker."    He also mentioned that there would be "bloody blue murder to pay" if the contract for making a Scottish Regt's kilts went outside of Scotland.  I doubt as Geo does, that the delays have anything to do with the lack of purchasing will but rather the lack of kiltmakers and readily available raw materials. 

(Little bit of history, I have my great grandfather's kilt that he wore in WWI - other than a small hole in the apron (which he would not allow to be repaired as it was a bullet hole which he was purported to be quite proud of it not hitting him - just the kilt) and a mud stain that won't come out,  it's in great condition.  I also have his child's kilt that he wore when he was 4.  My grandson now is wearing it.  A kilt that is properly made and cared for will last for decades (and in my case, a century and a bit)
 
Niner-D,

I can't see the whole of the Royal Regiment of Scotland being issued kilts - unless they are part purchased by the regiment and sold through the PRI (unit based shop selling kit). The cost for what is just 1 garment is astronomical compared to trews. I think that in future you will see the regiment wearing tartan trews as did the Highland Light Infantry and just the band wearing kilts. All will get No2s though.

My regiment, the Royal Green Jackets were never issued No1 dress - Rifle Green uniforms - they were instead issued No2s - khaki uniforms. Only the band had No1s. I think this will be the same for the Rifles when they form next year, and for all the other new "large" regiments.

Lets face it - what would you prefer - a new kilt or better body armour? There is only a finite budget and I know what I would want considering the amount of operations the British Army is committed to (Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, N Ireland, Cyprus and the Falklands - yes, we still have a presence down south - just in case!)
 
Rifleman, I can just hear them collectlively going ewwww over the trews.  Now many a man, bandy knees and all, can look somewhat good in a kilt - unless he has really bandy knees,  but tartan trews on the wrong body type can look like a fashion road kill. LOL...(or a bad imitation of the Bay City Rollers ;))

I tend to agree with you on the mass issuing of kilts, especially when they are Ceries and maybe trotted out 2-3 times a year.  I hope they get the bands sorted out soon with the proper kit.  The lack of kiltmakers is still going to be an issue irrespective of how many are to be made in the second run.  A good kiltmaker can at best produce, 26 kilts per kiltmaker per year.  Most kilt makers only have 3-4 employees max and not all employees are qualifed to make a kilt.   (this is assuming that these kilts will be hand sewn and not machined)

Rifleman is it still NP8901 down there?


 
From my side of the house I would venture to say that a highland regiment.... THE REGIMENT OF SCOTLAND, not wearing kilts?...... the population would be up in arms & tradition would demand that the Kilt be produced "pronto" as a matter of national (regional) pride.

I hear you Rifleman but.... it just doesn't compute on a political ammunition level.
 
Geo, I disagree with you. Operations take priority. Looking good in a uniform can wait.
 
Rick,
If you refer to my response (#35) you will see what my views are on the subject.

Kilts for all the troops are "chump change" to an army.  As stated by others, producing kilts is more a question of time than money.  With respect to troop morale, a highlander without a kilt is not a happy camper... and his humour at the prospect of having to borrow a kilt would bring his morale down a couple of more notches.

I do not think that the purchase of new kilts will hamper the UK govt's fiscal ability to purchase new C17s, CC130Js, Warrior AFVs. Balistic protection, ammuniton or weapons of any type.
 
geo said:
With respect to troop morale, a highlander without a kilt is not a happy camper... and his humour at the prospect of having to borrow a kilt would bring his morale down a couple of more notches.

I'll call on that one!

I know very few soldiers who look forward to wearing their dress uniforms - the prospect of a few hours of ironing, polishing, de-linting and standing still on a parade square make few jump for joy.

Personally, if I was told that all parades would be in cbts for a year or two - due to a lack of hot, itchy dress uniforms - my morale would see a notable rise!  ;D
 
Go...
That's for you & me - but those Scots are a weird lot to begin with.

I still think that money is NOT an issue with respect to the Kilts.
 
I have to agree with geo on this one.

Militaries can spend any amount on anything they want to. Good example: the recent purchase of billions of dollars of new aircraft here in Canada. Poor planning frequently gets in the way though, and I think that's what we're seeing here with the parachuting (nixed due to over demand on limited airframes) and the kilts (probably the last thing on their minds when trying to blend umpteen Scottish/ Highland units together).
 
I like one of the comments here "What's next? Taking boats away from the Royal Marines?"

If you think the Govt’s plan to cease parachute training until 2011 is INSANE then support the petition at:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Military-Madness/?signed=1



 
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