OCdt Speaks at Freedom Rally

[FormerHorseGuard]

I think that this punishment was appropriate because of the scope and context of his "mutinous" activity.

I believe that there would have been very VERY few people in uniform would could possibly have listened to/watched him and been motivated to actually act mutinously. He deportment and demeanor screamed "don't take this guy seriously", even if you agreed with his underlying premise. So, the threat of actual mutinous activity as a result was never serious.

I have various thoughts on his charges, rank, and service branch.
1) It was a very public event. He was wearing some sort of uniform, ( leaving the various parts of the kit explosion he was wearing aside the general public sees him as a soldier in uniform and the introduction of him to the public, made him sound like the next GI JOE VC, MOH winner if not already having earned those medals). So the general public could take his statements at face value and think or worry that the military is now rogue and looking to over throw the government on this policy. Scary for some people from other countries who have lived thru military coups or attempted coups.
2) Standing up there and denouncing the Government in Uniform is a serious issue and should be taken seriously, and the punishment should fit the crime.
3) Would member of the CAF follow the advice of a Officer Cadet and take his rants, suggestions seriously? I do not think so, but there is and was a huge number of Canadians thinking the policies in place over reaction and were already thinking the program was wrong and was not going to go along with the policy. This gave them a hero or a figure to rally around. People were at the rally so we know there was a following already.
4) Munity charge might of been over the top, but it certainly puts the fear of GOD ( RSM) in most troops who are thinking of following this man and going public with comments or thoughts while in Uniform.
5) This showed to all of the CAF that CIC , CIL officers are really members of the CAF and they have to follow the same rules as the rest of the serving members. No longer the ugly step child of the CAF, because this proved to everyone including them can end up doing the hatless dance if they break the rules of conduct.
6) Certainly in embarrassed the Regiment, the Cadet Corp he belonged to. Former CO was fit to be tied.
7) Plea deal should be made public and published so the public sees the Military was fair and civil in this matter and not forgotten about.
Now get him out of the CIC, CIL so he cannot corrupt the cadet program anymore.

 

[dimsum]

I have various thoughts on his charges, rank, and service branch.
1) It was a very public event. He was wearing some sort of uniform, ( leaving the various parts of the kit explosion he was wearing aside the general public sees him as a soldier in uniform and the introduction of him to the public, made him sound like the next GI JOE VC, MOH winner if not already having earned those medals). So the general public could take his statements at face value and think or worry that the military is now rogue and looking to over throw the government on this policy. Scary for some people from other countries who have lived thru military coups or attempted coups.
2) Standing up there and denouncing the Government in Uniform is a serious issue and should be taken seriously, and the punishment should fit the crime.
3) Would member of the CAF follow the advice of a Officer Cadet and take his rants, suggestions seriously? I do not think so, but there is and was a huge number of Canadians thinking the policies in place over reaction and were already thinking the program was wrong and was not going to go along with the policy. This gave them a hero or a figure to rally around. People were at the rally so we know there was a following already.
4) Munity charge might of been over the top, but it certainly puts the fear of GOD ( RSM) in most troops who are thinking of following this man and going public with comments or thoughts while in Uniform.
5) This showed to all of the CAF that CIC , CIL officers are really members of the CAF and they have to follow the same rules as the rest of the serving members. No longer the ugly step child of the CAF, because this proved to everyone including them can end up doing the hatless dance if they break the rules of conduct.
6) Certainly in embarrassed the Regiment, the Cadet Corp he belonged to. Former CO was fit to be tied.
7) Plea deal should be made public and published so the public sees the Military was fair and civil in this matter and not forgotten about.
Now get him out of the CIC, CIL so he cannot corrupt the cadet program anymore.

One nitpicky point - CIL doesn't exist anymore. It became the CIC (which, I suppose, became COATS).

 

[quadrapiper]

One nitpicky point - CIL doesn't exist anymore. It became the CIC (which, I suppose, became COATS).

CIC's still extant. COATS is a larger "box" which includes both CIC and "COATS GS" officers and NCMs who've CT'd from Regular or PRes service. Was initially billed (at least as far as what I saw as Class A CIC...) as a way to allow continuing service for interested members no longer able to meet UoS/medical/etc. or planning on retiring but interested in e.g. working with a corps. The big positives were that members would retain their prior unit identity, and that there was an official place for NCMs in parts of the cadet structure that were previously officer-only.

It seems to have expanded from that concept to include a significant number of members in support roles that would historically have been filled by Regulars on a normal posting cycle or PRes.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Slap on the wrist.

 

[Remius]

So the reprimand will be essentially useless. I'm sure some of the anti-vax crowd will find a way to contribute to paying that fine.

So he's going to be administratively released out of the public eye? Would he have received this same sentence if he had been an NCM or in a different role?

The severe reprimand is essentially a career killer for him.

Being released is an administrative action. I suspect that will be happening.

Being and NCM or not is irrelevant. And likely yes. Or some approximation of that.

 

[brihard]

Slap on the wrist.

$4200 for a 129? You think so?

 

[Jarnhamar]

$4200 for a 129? You think so?

Yea man, I think so.

He's a military officer who in a military uniform publicly called for a mutiny. The plea deal is part of the slap on the wrist IMO. He's probably already got right-wing wingnuts offering to pay that fine for him.

 

[brihard]

Yea man, I think so.

He's a military officer who in a military uniform publicly called for a mutiny. The plea deal is part of the slap on the wrist IMO. He's probably already got right-wing wingnuts offering to pay that fine for him.

The encouraging mutiny charge would have been a tough sell in court, especially given how untested that offence is in case law. I wouldn’t be surprised if the prosecutor looked at it, assessed that his ‘encouragement’ had no meaningful impact on anyone else in uniform, and figured they’d be risking bad case law. That’s my very amateur guess on it.

If he had been in an actual position of responsibility or likely to be heeded in any real way, that probably would have been another matter.

Just my take on it. You could well be right.

 

[Good2Golf]

The severe reprimand is essentially a career killer for him.

For as much of a “career” as a….you know…60-year old OCdt is going to have…

 

[Remius]

For as much of a “career” as a….you know…60-year old OCdt is going to have…

True. But it will amplify his possible release I would gather.

 

[Remius]

$4200 for a 129? You think so?

Would that not be almost a year’s average salary for a cic Ocdt?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Would that not be almost a year’s average salary for a cic Ocdt?

Do the reserves have to provide members charged with large fines an adequate amount of work in order to pay off the fine?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Do the reserves have to provide members charged with large fines an adequate amount of work in order to pay off the fine?

Nope.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Nope.

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

 

[brihard]

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

Sucks to be him then.

 

[Remius]

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

Well at least he made some pay for the trial day and any trial prep he had to do so there is that lol

 

[SeaKingTacco]

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

Maybe he should have thought about that before he went all “William Wallace”…

 

[GK .Dundas]

Maybe he should have thought about that before he went all “William Wallace”…

Wait, he was wearing woad too ?

 

[dapaterson]

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

A presiding officer is supposed to consider all such things, including indirect effects.

I have heard of sentences that include a fine plus extra duty, which were intended to be offsetting, so the individual would be able to cover their fine.

Of course, that would depend on the nature of the offence, and whether the individual acknowledged their failure of conduct (or not).

 

[MJP]

With the CAFs penchant to taking payments out all at once I wonder what would happen if this gig was buddies only source of income and he only got 1x half day per month.

Most of the larger fines I have seen have been payable over a certain time period which is usually determined between counsel and the judge to not cause undue hardship too the accused