Older troops assaulting young people, report finds

[Michael OLeary]

Although the news article emphasized the most negative aspects of the original report, it all seems based on fact.  Hard to argue with that...

I don't think anyone is arguing the facts.  What is being countered is the way the news services have taken the available data that they allude to, and dumbed it down to a misleading mess of innuendo.

If they wanted to use the 25 incidents in Borden as an example (even if Borden is arguably not a typical Base for its demographics) then it wouldn't have taken much more ink/electrons to publish the list of 25 cases giving ages and components of the 25 assailants and victims.  Then the reader could do their own "analysis."

 

[George Wallace]

Although the news article emphasized the most negative aspects of the original report, it all seems based on fact.  Hard to argue with that...

And you know what they say about "statistics" don't you?

 

[mariomike]

And you know what they say about "statistics" don't you?

Benjamin Disraeli said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and STATISTICS."

 

[medicineman]

And you know what they say about "statistics" don't you?

Statistically speaking, 43% of all statistics are statistically useless.

MM

 

[Kat Stevens]

And 36.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[BradCon]

I had a stats instructor who conclude that a bovine growth hormone was a wise purchase based on the lone evidence that with the hormone cows were on average 20% heavier.
She didn't look at life span, general health, milk production, or even what that extra 20% of growth was.

When the media et a hold of stat, they generally make the same sort of conclusions as that instructor.

 

[gwp]

Of the 25 incidents at Borden (the location with the largest number) 10 were cadets, 8 were privates at the Post Recruit Education Training Centre. The remainder were other either "civilian" children or other persons.

Overall of the total incidents mentioned in the report victims were
34% civilian
19% military
17% cadets
30% other youth

90% of victims were female; 34 % of victims were civilians; and 47% included cadets and other young persons. (one-third of the young persons - 17% being cadets)

Of the persons charged 98% were male
71% military
14% civilian
14% cadets
1% other youth

The report indicates that 17% of the victims are cadets and 14% of the charged are cadets.  That suggests that those "investigations" involved children with children. rather than other perpetrators.  Cadets with cadets activity can range from some form of aggression, to inappropriate horseplay, to experimental curiosity.

The reason the report becomes inflamatory is found is this paragraph

"The number of reported sexual offence complaints involving cadets and young persons is a cause for concern as young persons and cadets combined account for almost half (47% - 17% cadets, 30% other youth) of the victims of reported offences. "

 

While it is tempting ... it would be disingenuous in the context of the report to say that cadets are safer than other youth. 

Each summer there are several cases where a cadet does not want to go home from Cadet Summer Training because they have been safe away from home.  They hide in a locker or the washroom they are so concerned about going home to an unsafe situation after having been safe and well looked after at a Cadet Summer Training Centre.

The reality is that these figures have nothing to do with the cadet program or even the CF... it is a societal issue. The cadet organization does everything possible and more than most youth organizations to prevent and report.

The leadership in the Cadet Organizations is screened and examined more closely than any other group in the CF.  The Cadet Harrassment and Abuse Prevention (CHAP) program is given both locally and at summer training centres.
 
It is also worth noting that the report says

possession of child pornography 38 incidents makes up the highest number of offences involving the exploitation of children.

 

 

[Greymatters]

I don't think anyone is arguing the facts.  What is being countered is the way the news services have taken the available data that they allude to, and dumbed it down to a misleading mess of innuendo.

If they wanted to use the 25 incidents in Borden as an example (even if Borden is arguably not a typical Base for its demographics) then it wouldn't have taken much more ink/electrons to publish the list of 25 cases giving ages and components of the 25 assailants and victims.  Then the reader could do their own "analysis."

I am not protecting the writer, merely saying its hard to dispute them without the original report in our own hands to see if it has been unintentionally or maliciously misinterpretted.  A link to the original report would have been nice so we could see the details for ourselves. 

I might have missed it but I didnt see a link for that on this thread yet...

 

[Neill McKay]

I am not protecting the writer, merely saying its hard to dispute them without the original report in our own hands to see if it has been unintentionally or maliciously misinterpretted.  A link to the original report would have been nice so we could see the details for ourselves. 

I might have missed it but I didnt see a link for that on this thread yet...

I think it's noted somewhere that it's only a draft report, possibly got at by the press through an Access to Information request, so it's likely not yet available on the web (or otherwise published, except in the questionable form that we've all seen by now).

 

[George Wallace]

I think it's noted somewhere that it's only a draft report, ........

That is even sloppier reporting.  Let's go way out on a limb and make this extreme statement:  "Oh Look!  I found a rough idea scribbled on this napkin.  I'll write a full Page Three article on it."    :

 

[The_Falcon]

The article I read on the sunmedia site, stated the report was obtained via an ATI request.

 

[MAJONES]

Just the media trying to invent a story.

 

[ltmaverick25]

While I certainly agree that the press may be portraying the military in an unfair light yet again, we are also preaching to the choir on this one...

Regardless of what the numbers tell us about trends and whatever the case may be, this is a report we need to take seriously and as leaders, make sure that we do an even more diligent job to make sure this sort of thing cannot continue.  I am sure thats also preaching to the choir, but it is important that we look at this article from the other side of the coin as well.  We do ourselves a diservice by always being offended by everything written about us in a negative light.  We also need to note.  As someone else already said, had nobody in the CF commited these offences, the report wouldnt be able to exist..

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

Military taking action after sex assault report: MacKay
Updated Tue. Mar. 17 2009 2:27 PM ET

The Canadian Press

SHEARWATER, N.S. -- Defence Minister Peter MacKay says the military has taken action after a report highlighted sexual assaults of young people by older members of the Canadian Forces.

He says he's `very concerned' about the allegations contained in the draft report - obtained by The Canadian Press - which was done through the Military Police Criminal Intelligence Program for the period from 2004 to June 2008.

MacKay, who was speaking today at 12 Wing Shearwater for an unrelated announcement, says training and awareness are part of the Forces' efforts to address the issue.

When asked to explain what action has been taken, MacKay would only say that if charges are laid, the military would deal with the matter in the same way as in the civilian justice system.

MacKay, a former Crown prosecutor, also said the military justice system has been modernized in order to `marry up with the civilian justice system.'

He said while the allegations of sexual assault in the report are not disproportionate in terms of their numbers, he stressed that any such complaint is `extremely troublesome.'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090317/military_mackay_090317/20090317?hub=Canada

 

[OldSolduer]

While I certainly agree that the press may be portraying the military in an unfair light yet again, we are also preaching to the choir on this one...

Regardless of what the numbers tell us about trends and whatever the case may be, this is a report we need to take seriously and as leaders, make sure that we do an even more diligent job to make sure this sort of thing cannot continue.  I am sure thats also preaching to the choir, but it is important that we look at this article from the other side of the coin as well.  We do ourselves a diservice by always being offended by everything written about us in a negative light.  We also need to note.  As someone else already said, had nobody in the CF commited these offences, the report wouldnt be able to exist..

Agreed. Well said.