Opportunity to update the CC-150 fleet?

[calculus]

Looks like we're going the used (cheap) route, once again:

Canada moves forward with the acquisition of aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Today, Defence Minister Anita Anand announced that Canada has finalized a contract to acquire the first two aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) that will replace and renew the capability currently fulfilled by the CC-150 Polaris fleet and later become part of the Strategic Tanker...

www.canada.ca

 

[Underway]

I have limited understanding of strategic airlift requirements but add these to the pool with the Hercs, C-17's seem to me to create options and more capacity. Given the expeditionary nature (even within our own country) of the CAF having more aircraft that can just move "stuff" while liberating the C17's to move just "big stuff" is good.

 

[DBNSG]

They will be modified before we take delivery.

What would these modifications be? Communication gear? ,paint job?, VVIP suite design?

 

[dapaterson]

What would these modifications be? Communication gear? ,paint job?, VVIP suite design?

Yes. Plus, if they have been in storage / preservation, there's a lengthy list of things to check before they are deemed airworthy again.

 

[YZT580]

They will be modified before we take delivery.

glad to hear that but that is not what the info release said: These two commercial aircraft will later be modified by Airbus Defence and Space to military specifications required to serve as multirole aircraft within the STTC fleet, and they will play an integral role in providing air-to-air refuelling, strategic airlift, aeromedical evacuations, and strategic Government of Canada personnel transport, including transport of the Prime Minister, Governor General, and others, for decades to come.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I wonder if it is the AAR gear that will be “added at a later date”?

 

[Good2Golf]

glad to hear that but that is not what the info release said: These two commercial aircraft will later be modified by Airbus Defence and Space to military specifications required to serve as multirole aircraft within the STTC fleet, and they will play an integral role in providing air-to-air refuelling, strategic airlift, aeromedical evacuations, and strategic Government of Canada personnel transport, including transport of the Prime Minister, Governor General, and others, for decades to come.

The press release also doesn’t state when DND will assign them operationally to 437 Squadron in Trenton, so…1) I’m going out on a limb and hypothesizing exactly where these aircraft will reside operationally, and 2) I agree with @SupersonicMax that the RCAF won’t see the aircraft in use or even flown by RCAF until AFTER AD&S does the conversion. The press releases are almost always deliberately vague in areas of precise phasing and timing - so the Govt doesn’t restrict itself from fine tuning things but not providing a vector for complaints of untruthfulness.

 

[GR66]

Those pilots would likely already be maxed out on hours for the month and if they’re not then OT at AC pays better.

We always seem to want to find reasons why we CAN'T do things in the CAF (and in the Reserve world in particular).

Somehow the US Air National Guard manages to find enough Reservists to man 90 flying squadrons (in addition to several squadrons operating UAVs). I'm suggesting we find enough Reserve pilots to man 6 additional aircraft during surge requirements on an airframe where there is likely a large pool of pilots available that already have currency on the type.

If that extremely modest task is beyond our capabilities then I truly despair for the future of our military.

 

[Good2Golf]

Canada also doesn’t have any inclination to keep said pilots in a reserve pool to directly or indirectly assist, à la US Civil Air Reserve Fleet:

Civil Reserve Air Fleet

A unique and significant part of the nation

www.amc.af.mil

 

[YZT580]

We always seem to want to find reasons why we CAN'T do things in the CAF (and in the Reserve world in particular).

Somehow the US Air National Guard manages to find enough Reservists to man 90 flying squadrons (in addition to several squadrons operating UAVs). I'm suggesting we find enough Reserve pilots to man 6 additional aircraft during surge requirements on an airframe where there is likely a large pool of pilots available that already have currency on the type.

If that extremely modest task is beyond our capabilities then I truly despair for the future of our military.

Sad but true. Considering that our reserve squadrons flew single otters (with floats and skiis) for years until they were upgraded by a switch to jet rangers we have never tried to stand up proper squadrons.

 

[Spencer100]

Looks like we're going the used (cheap) route, once again:

Canada moves forward with the acquisition of aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Today, Defence Minister Anita Anand announced that Canada has finalized a contract to acquire the first two aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) that will replace and renew the capability currently fulfilled by the CC-150 Polaris fleet and later become part of the Strategic Tanker...

www.canada.ca

Anyone taking bets the VVIP suite is put in first? And that is the reason we are getting the used one first to standup fast as they can. (I have heard the current PM is not too happy with the current suite.)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Anyone taking bets the VVIP suite is put in first? And that is the reason we are getting the used one first to standup fast as they can. (I have heard the current PM is not too happy with the current suite.)

This is likley the driving factor for the purchase, the other airframes are just icing on the cake for him.

 

[brihard]

I understand AAR has two very different types of systems and that our current fleet is not necessarily compatible with refueling some of what our friends fly; will these aircraft be able to refuel allied tactical aircraft? Just asking from a “credible coalition partner” standpoint.

 

[Good2Golf]

Probably more important for him (JT) to see Harper’s CPC/Shamu paint job replaced with a more liberal interpretation of Canada’s BackTM.

CANFORCE 1, aka CPC Shamu:

(Credit: Jetphotos.com)

 

[GR66]

I understand AAR has two very different types of systems and that our current fleet is not necessarily compatible with refueling some of what our friends fly; will these aircraft be able to refuel allied tactical aircraft? Just asking from a “credible coalition partner” standpoint.

The Airbus 330 MRTT is equipped with both a Boom system and underwing pods for a Probe & Drogue system so will be able to refuel Allied aircraft using either system.

 

[dapaterson]

I have spoken with LCMM staff who were ashamed of the poor quality "VIP" suite more than a decade ago.

Regardless of which party the PM is from, there is a need to provide the head of government, head of state, and other VVIPs with transportation, often including large accompanying groups.

The A310 is flying with a bunch of Iranian airlines. It has poor amenities for non VIP passengers.

Canadian cheapness (Chretien and Harper, please rise) is why we have a falling down, empty PM's residence and a 30+ year old crappy alleged VIP transport.

There are costs to a nation associated with its leadership.

 

[captloadie]

There was nothing wrong with the previous VIP config, if viewed from the lens of what its purpose was. 001 was never meant to be a flying command centre ala Airforce One. It was meant to be a means for the VVIPs to have an area to rest separate from the other passengers on the flight. It was also designed before the need for instant and constant connection to the internet. It was a mode of transportation, not a flying office.

Now that the requirement has evolved, I would expect the trappings of the VVIP suite will as well. That said, hopefully the result will still be an aircraft that can be tasked for other duties when required.

 

[PuckChaser]

I have limited understanding of strategic airlift requirements but add these to the pool with the Hercs, C-17's seem to me to create options and more capacity. Given the expeditionary nature (even within our own country) of the CAF having more aircraft that can just move "stuff" while liberating the C17's to move just "big stuff" is good.

After having been pax in many C17 flights with kit strapped beside me, in my mind the A330 MRTT opens up more options to move large amounts of equipment that isn't "oddly shaped". Thinking mail, food, water, clothing, even DG flights. C17s can get used for trucks, generators, helicopters, etc.

 

[Underway]

After having been pax in many C17 flights with kit strapped beside me, in my mind the A330 MRTT opens up more options to move large amounts of equipment that isn't "oddly shaped". Thinking mail, food, water, clothing, even DG flights. C17s can get used for trucks, generators, helicopters, etc.

I completely agree. C17 lands with two LAVs inside of it. The company that will use them with all their gear get off the A330 one plane over.

 

[dapaterson]

After having been pax in many C17 flights with kit strapped beside me, in my mind the A330 MRTT opens up more options to move large amounts of equipment that isn't "oddly shaped". Thinking mail, food, water, clothing, even DG flights. C17s can get used for trucks, generators, helicopters, etc.

I believe the technical term for you in such situations is "self loading cargo" .