Ostomy bags and the CF.

[PantherSurvior]

As of yet, I have not been able to find a good answer or opinion related to this question. I've searched this site, and most other sites as well, but this seems to be a rare question.

I am 19 years old, I was born with some intestinal issues. Namely a rare condition called Chronic Intestinal Pseudo Obstruction.

As a result, I was given an Ieliostomy bag when I was only 2 years old. Ever since, I have lived with this Ostomy, and refused to let it hold me back from doing anything. I have sky dived, Rock climbed, Cliff dived, Hunted, Camped, Swam across huge distances. I've played team sports and combat recreation games such as paintball and air soft. I am in average physical condition, and working on getting in even better shape. Just yesterday I Biked 70 KM in 7 hours with 50LBS on my back, not sure if thats good or bad, but it shows none the less I am in good shape, at least in my opinion.

I have been thinking for a long time, and would like to join the Canadian Forces as a full time Reservist. I know people have been disqualified for less, But in my search I have also found a few stories of members in the CF having Ostomies, or Colostomies.

I understand that the only way to be truly sure is to head to my nearest CFRC but do you, the people of Army.ca, think that my Ostomy would stop me from fighting for my country?

And for those of you in the forces, Please, keep up the good work. 

 

[kincanucks]

Yes.

 

[PantherSurvior]

Thanks for the opinion.

Albeit now I can't take no for an answer. 

More opinions please.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Kincanucks knows of what he speaks.........sorry, but if he says no then that is the answer you will get from a CFRC also.

Good luck.

 

[aesop081]

More opinions please.

My opinion is the same as Kincanucks, and he knows what he is talking about. You will not become a member of the CF in your condition.

 

[kincanucks]

Thanks for the opinion.

Albeit now I can't take no for an answer. 

More opinions please.

Do a search on Universality of Service then come back here and tell me that you think you can be in the CF. As for members of the CF having the same condition, it is possible but I guarantee it they didn't have the condition before they got in.  Good Luck in your future endeavors.

 

[cp140tech]

I spoke to a fully qualified young tech here a few weeks ago as I was clearing in, he indicated that he had a similar condition to yours.  He is currently looking at a medical release, not his choice.  Good luck to you, but I don't know if you'll have much success.

 

[PantherSurvior]

I don't know.

It has never stopped me from any other thing I've wanted to do.

I've excelled past my peers in highschool, and outperformed everyone in anything I set my mind to. I just think it would be a sad waste if I couldn't join the Reserves. It's these small technicalities I've always had to fight throughout my life. Because I fall into a certain medical bracket, I've been told I can not do certain things. And I've told them right back, the hell I can't. And I've managed to prove myself every other time. I can't bring myself to accept this as any different.

It doesnt effect my physical performance, and neither does it require medical attention more frequently then 6 months.

Any accounts of people already in the forces who recieved this condition afterwords, are still appreciated.

Thanks for the additional opinions.

 

[aesop081]

It has never stopped me from any other thing I've wanted to do.

Look, i know that growing up your mom told you that you were special and that you could be anything you wanted to be........

Life just doesnt work that way.

 

[Michael OLeary]

It has never stopped me from any other thing I've wanted to do.
...
It doesnt effect my physical performance, and neither does it require medical attention more frequently then 6 months.

You would be surprised how many different conditions we have seen comments such as this about.  Unfortunately, there are many conditions that preclude enrollment in the CF, no mater how fit the individual thinks they are.

By all means, apply at the CFRC and see what the results of the medical review on your file will be.  And good luck in your future endeavours, whatever they may be.

 

[Neill McKay]

As you seem set on trying anyway (which you're of course free to do) I'll offer a couple of comments:

- In your original post you referred to joining as a full-time reservist.  You should understand that the reserves are (mostly) part-time.  If you want to serve full-time, on an ongoing basis, then you would join the regular force.

- Part of the difficulty a person in your condition would probably face is the need to have and maintain medical equipment for extended periods in field conditions.  I believe such a condition makes a person unfit even for sea service, and in a ship you're never more than 200 feet from the nearest clean space, source of water etc.  In the field conditions can be very austere, to say the least.

I would be very surprised if you were to get in, but as I said above you're certainly free to try your luck at the recruiting centre.

 

[PantherSurvior]

Look, i know that growing up your mom told you that you were special and that you could be anything you wanted to be........

Life just doesnt work that way.

Actually she said I wouldn't be able to do half the things I can.

I told her the same I told everyone else, that I could. Thanks for the profoundly blunt attempt at being realistic, though.



Regardless, we will see once I go in to the recruitment centre. I'll be sure to keep you all updated, for anyone in the future who may have the same question.

Good luck, all.

 

[dapaterson]

Requiring medical treatment at least every 6 months is a G3 (at best) in the Geographical factor , which falls short of the enrolment standard (to my recollection).  Other aspects to your condition (that I don't know, need to know, nor am I qualified to assess) may lower it to G4 or even G5.

 

[PantherSurvior]

You misunderstood, I don't need treatment every 6 months.

That is what I am saying. Technically, I fall within Geographical enrollment standard, as I can go for over 6 months without medical treatment, even a year.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I spoke to a fully qualified young tech here a few weeks ago as I was clearing in, he indicated that he had a similar condition to yours.  He is currently looking at a medical release, not his choice.

I read that to mean (correct me if I'm wrong):  someone who was already in the military ended up with a condition similar to yours, and must leave.

People who know here say you can't join with an ostomy, but let us know how it goes with the recruiter. 

Keep in mind there's lot of great, worthy things to do outside the military as well.  Good luck with it.

 

[aesop081]

Technically, I fall within Geographical enrollment standard, as I can go for over 6 months without medical treatment, even a year.

Even less technicaly, this is your opinion (of one factor only) and not a medical fact. Go see the CFRC , apply and the CF will tell you what you need and dont need. Theres more to being medicaly fit for the CF that just the "G" factor.

I'm still laughing at your paintball and airsoft reference btw.........

 

[ArmyGuy99]

The Short answer is NO, as already stated;

The Long Answer is at the end of the day it's the RMO @ D MED POL who assigns your medical category.  Not you. 

You have the answers that you asked for.  Please go and see the local CFRC and apply and see what develops.  Just be prepared for the answer. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We're sure you're a real go getter and good on you for wanting this so badly. You came here and asked opinions. You've gotten them from the best sources we can provide. However, we can't say how your condition will affect you. We're not doctors, but guess what? The Recruiting Centre has one that will make things very, very plain, simple and finite for you, but you have to go ask them. We can do more for you as we have given you what you've asked for here. Please accept it and quit arguing........and go to the CFRC for your definitive prognosis in the matter. We can offer no more than we have.

 

[Blackadder1916]

PantherSurvivor

Some very informed opinions have already been provided.  It is highly unlikely that you will meet minimum medical standards for enrolment into the Canadian Forces.  You are not the first (and probably won't be the last) to be so disappointed because you feel that your physical fitness and activity ability should be taken into account.  Over twenty years ago a young man who suffered from a related problem was also refused enrolment and tried to get the decision reversed including taking it to a human rights tribunal.  He was unsuccessful.

Galbraith v. Canadian Armed Forces
(the following are extracted portions of the report of that proceeding)

{ . . . }

On December 15, 1982, Mr. Galbraith filed a complaint with the Canadian Human Rights Commission against the Department of National Defence alleging "discrimination on the basis of physical handicap (resection of the bowel - continent ileostomy) in violation of sections 7( a) and 10 of the Canadian Human Rights Act". At the commencement of the hearing, the name of the Respondent was changed on consent to the Canadian Armed Forces.

Mr. Galbraith testified that the resection of his bowel was made necessary because of a birth defect known as Hirschsprung’s Disease. According to the medical evidence adduced at the hearing, Hirschsprung’s Disease results in the absence of nerves in areas of the bowel wall. As a result, the movement of material in the colon may be uncoordinated or blocked. Mr. Galbraith underwent three operations, referred to as colostomies, which attempted to remove the affected portion of his large intestine and to rejoin the intestine. In July, 1981, Dr. Zane Cohen performed a continent ileostomy on Mr. Galbraith. A continent ileostomy involves the removal of the large intestine and the construction of a pouch on the inside of the small intestine. To empty the pouch, a. catheter is inserted. A continent ileostomy may be distinguished from a conventional ileostomy in which a hole is made in the abdominal wall, the intestine itself is brought outside the body and the fluid is captured in a collection bag. The two procedures are physiologically identical.

The continent ileostomy appears to have had very little impact on Mr. Galbraith’s day- to- day life. Mr. Galbraith testified that although dietary recommendations were made to him, he has never really followed them. He is apparently a very active young man engaging in softball, volleyball, camping, hiking and swimming, as well as being a member of the Canadian Ski Patrol System. Mr. Galbraith spent the summer of 1986 in Kenya working in a hospital for malnutritioned children and testified that he had suffered no physical problems during his stay there. He stated that he has never suffered from dehydration in the course of his activities and has never been advised to avoid any particular activities.

{. . . }

6. Conclusion

There is no doubt that in this case the Armed Forces’ overriding concern is safety: the safety of the individual himself, the safety of other members of the Armed Forces, and the safety of the public. Therefore, the question is whether the Respondent has demonstrated "sufficient risk of employee failure" to justify the restriction on enrolment on which it relies.

I am satisfied that on a consideration of all the evidence adduced, the Canadian Armed Forces has shown that there is sufficient risk of employee failure and that the blanket exclusion resulting from a grading worse than G2 O2 given to an individual who has had a gastric or bowel resection is justified.

The evidence demonstrates that the duties of an artilleryman are strenuous and physically demanding. Not only is an artilleryman expected to be skilled in his trade, he is also expected to perform as a soldier. As Chief Warrant Officer Guttin stated, "you are a soldier first and tradesman second." While I am prepared to accept that in peacetime there may well be a difference in the nature of the duties performed by an artilleryman who is a member of the Militia as opposed to an artillery man who is a member of the Regular Forces, I am also satisfied that in time of war, there is, for all practical purposes, no distinction.

I am not prepared to differentiate between artillerymen in the Militia and artillerymen in the Regular Forces for the purposes of determining what constitutes a bona fide occupational requirement. In my view, the Canadian Armed Forces’ concern with safety is not diminished and is no less real because of the fact that members of the Militia train much less often than their Regular Force counterparts and can only be ordered to go somewhere if they are placed on active duty. Artillerymen in the Militia are called upon to demonstrate a broad range of skills which are not substantially different than those necessary in the Regular Forces. The fact is that, once members of the Militia are placed on active duty, they must be capable of fulfilling their assigned duties. An individual’s ability to do so will impact not only upon his own safety, and by virtue of the fact that teamwork and mutual reliance are critical, upon the safety of his team members, but also upon the safety of Canadians and the defence of Canada. In light of these considerations, it is not unreasonable for the Canadian Armed Forces to insist upon strict enrolment standards for new recruits into the Reserve Militia. (See Seguin v. R. C. M. P. 1989 Canadian Human Rights Tribunal; unreported where similar reasoning was employed.)

Considerable evidence was adduced as to the conditions in which an artilleryman could expect to exercise his duties. I think it is fair to state that water shortages are a real possibility as is food contamination. That these conditions often result in disease was illustrated by the American medical statistics relating to World War II and the Vietnam war. The hazards of nuclear biological chemical warfare and the problems of treating an injured person in an contaminated area must also be borne in mind.

The likely effects of these conditions on an individual who has had a continent ileostomy were discussed by Drs. O’Brien, Roy and Ross. In Dr. O’Brien’s opinion, a person having had a continent ileostomy starts from a lower reserve level than a normal individual, due to the stresses on the former’s homeostatic systems thus making that individual more susceptible to external stresses. Although the studies relied upon by Dr. O’Brien to support his opinion used conventional ileostomates and not continent ileostomates as subjects, I accept Dr. O’Brien’s testimony that physiologically, the two procedures are identical. I prefer Dr. O’Brien’s testimony to that of Dr. Ross in light of the former’s considerable expertise in the area. In accepting Dr. O’Brien’s testimony, I also inject a note of caution: should medical knowledge advance to the point where it is evident that continent ileostomates do not begin at a lower reserve level, this issue may have to be revisited.

There is no real statistical evidence before me as to the likelihood of failure of continent ileostomies; Dr. O’Brien testified that after two years, 85 per cent of continent ileostomies have been described as successful. I am reluctant to conclude from this that 15 per cent could be described as failures. I am, however, also mindful of the decision in Little, that an employer need not jeopardize public safety in order to generate statistical evidence to support a bona fide occupational requirement.

I am therefore satisfied that the Canadian Armed Forces has made out a case that there is a real risk and not a purely hypothetical one that an individual having had a continent ileostomy is subject to an increased possibility of injury in the field as a result of his medical condition and that there is "sufficient risk" of failure which would jeopardize the safety of himself and others to justify the G2 O2 classification as a bona fide occupational requirement. Mr. Galbraith has had a very successful surgical result. I adopt, however, Dr. O’Brien’s view that to equate what Mr. Galbraith has been able to accomplish in civilian life with the hazards and stresses of life as an artilleryman is neither appropriate nor meaningful.

It is for this same reason, that the hazards and stresses of military life cannot be replicated, that I am satisfied that the Canadian Armed Forces has justified its blanket exclusion for individuals having received less than a G2 O2 medical rating as a result of having had a gastric or bowel resection. I am somewhat skeptical of the argument that in view of the number of potential recruits considered every year, individual assessment would be impractical. I am of the view that such assessments would be inappropriate because of the difficulty, if not the impossibility, of replicating field conditions. While it is true that these conditions are replicated as best they can be in peacetime exercises, even in that case there is in my opinion, a significant difference. How one will cope physically in a time of war will be determined only in a time of war. Dr. Ross’ suggestion of a. means by which individuals such as Mr. Galbraith could be tested would not, in my view, be adequate or accurate. > - 45 In support of his argument that ileostomates are capable of serving in the Canadian Armed Forces and that the G2 O2 requirement, which excludes an ileostomate,. cannot be justified, Mr. Duval pointed to the fact that several individuals having had bowel resections subsequent to enrolment have been retained in the Armed Forces. Strictly speaking, the difference in treatment between an individual seeking to enrol in the Armed Forces and a serving member is not the issue before me. In any event, I accept Dr. Roy’s explanation of the rationale for the difference in treatment. Moreover, only one of these individuals has been through the entire Career Medical Review Board process. Although the outcome of this process was that he was retained "without career restriction", it is important to note that this individual is employed as an "Air Frame Tech" and, according to Dr. Roy, unlike an artilleryman, would not be required to go into the field.

I find that the Canadian Armed Forces has established that an automatic exclusion from enrolment for someone having had a gastric or bowel resection which results in a medical rating of less than G2 O2 constitutes a bona fide occupational requirement pursuant to the Act. I reach this conclusion somewhat reluctantly in view of the active civilian life which Mr. Galbraith currently leads. I am satisfied, however, that one cannot equate stresses in civilian life to those in the military. I caution however, as did the Tribunal in Rodger, that because a bona fide occupational requirement was found in this case, does not mean that it will continue to be bona fide in the future. The surgical procedure of a continent ileostomy is relatively new and the medical and statistical information relating to it are only now emerging. It may well be that in the near future, new medical techniques or new scientific evidence will permit the conclusion that any increased risk to an ileostomate is so slight that a sufficient risk of employee failure cannot be made out within the meaning of the Etobicoke test.

June 26, 1989

 

[geo]

PantherSurvivor

Methinks that, if you want to wear the uniform and serve Canada, then you are limited in your options.... to just one.

The Cadet Instructors Cadre (CIC) are always looking for officers to lead their young cadets.

Hey, it's an option that you CAN accomplish