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Our Great GG.

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Toronto Star - 26 November 2004

Clarkson's budget to be cut
Commons committee wants $417,100 slashed
Governor General will have to show `discipline'


RICK WESTHEAD AND BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
STAFF REPORTERS

OTTAWAâ ”Governor General Adrienne Clarkson, whose lavish trips have stoked controversy, will have to "switch brands of caviar," a New Democrat MP said after a parliamentary committee slashed her budget.

Clarkson is looking at cutbacks after the government's operations and estimates committee voted yesterday to trim her $19.1 million budget by $417,100.

While Clarkson has won praise for reaching out to people, the former journalist has come under fire in recent months for using government planes to fly to her Georgian Bay cottage and spending millions of dollars on allegedly exorbitant trips â ” such as $5.3 million last December for a three-week sojourn through Russia, Iceland and Finland.

"We're not trying to clip her wings to the point where she can't do her job," said NDP MP Pat Martin (Winnipeg Centre), a vice-chair of the operations committee. "We're simply asking her to show the same kind of discipline that the rest of us are expected to exhibit."

Martin is a long-time critic of Rideau Hall spending.

"We don't believe this will cause layoffs," he said. "We don't believe she'll have to cancel programs ... Anyone with a sharp pencil should be able to find that somewhere."

The Governor General's office has enjoyed significant gains in recent years. For the year ended March 31, 2005, Clarkson has a $19.1 million budget, up from about $13 million in 1995.

It would take a full vote of Parliament to reverse the prospective cut.

Treasury Board President Reg Alcock said the recommendation of the committee, chaired by a Conservative MP, might "carry consequences" since Clarkson also serves as ceremonial head of the armed forces.

"You can't talk about supporting the military, cut the budget of the commander-in-chief and then still expect her to play the same role in the ceremonial role with the armed forces and support troops," Alcock said.

"The magic of the minority government is that we're all responsible. The thing that the opposition is now going to learn is that when you make decisions like that ... that will have consequences."

Randy Mylyk, a spokesperson for the Governor General, declined to comment on the proposed budget cut, although he did say Martin "clearly does not understand the role of the Governor General in our parliamentary system" and "distorts the reality of the budget.

"Is it below Canada to honour Canadians through the activities of the governor general's office that honour, recognize and engage Canadians for bravery and volunteerism and lifelong excellence?"

Still, Martin suggested Clarkson's office â ” which acts as Canada's de facto head of state representing the Queen â ” was just one agency that should prepare for a future of austerity.

Opposition MPs also used their majority on the operations committee to take a bite out of the Privy Council Office budget, cutting it by $121,000 a year. It's a symbolic cut, matching the amount the office spent to hire a public relations firm to cope with the fall-out of the sponsorship scandal.

"Where do they get off spending public money on purely partisan issues? So we've deducted them dollar for dollar," said Martin. "This is what minority government looks like. They better get used to it."

In an interview last March with CBC Radio, Clarkson said she thought the millions spent on her office was well spent.

"I do believe that the money we ask for in our budget to do the job I think the Governor-General should do â ” of reaching out to people, of making Canada real to everybody through travelling about and making connections with people, of showing people at their best to each other â ” I think that we do spend it well," she said in the interview.

Clarkson has said her expenses have climbed because of costs associated with modernizing her office. She's also involved in 908 events a year â ” three times more than have been scheduled in past years.

Accompanying the Governor General on her controversial "circumpolar" tour last fall were husband John Ralston Saul, 22 staffers and 59 "prominent Canadians."



This one managed to get me visibly incensed at 0845 this morning, due to

1/   $19.1 Million!?
2/   The audacity of some to associate such a pork-barrel office with support for the military.
 
"I do believe that the money we ask for in our budget to do the job I think the Governor-General should do â ” of reaching out to people, of making Canada real to everybody through travelling about and making connections with people, of showing people at their best to each other â ” I think that we do spend it well," she said in the interview.

I'm sorry, but 19 million is far better spent elsewhere. You don't need to spend 19 million to network with foreign business people or governments.
 
This is obscene. Our military is underfunded, tuition is on the rise , healthcare is going by the wayside and we let this woman travel the world on our money. 19.1 million dollars of our money. I want a free trip. Better yet, i want to be able to eat something better than Kraft dinner while I am in school. They need to make her more accountable for the money she spends. THis seems like a huge waste.
 
I agree she's spending too much....

However, I'll point out that she seems to be the only person of any constitutional authority in Ottawa who actually gives a rip about any of us. It's sure been nice seeing someone actually taking an interest in what we do, trying to share our hardships (her hubby went on a mountain patrol in Afghanistan!!) and giving up her holiday time to spend it with the troops. If only our elected leaders would actually "lead" that way.....

I've got no problem with cutting her budget, but let's be careful to remember who our (few) friends are.

Kilo Mike said:
"You can't talk about supporting the military, cut the budget of the commander-in-chief and then still expect her to play the same role in the ceremonial role with the armed forces and support troops," Alcock said.

The sight of a Liberal pontificating about "supporting our troops" makes me sick to my stomach. The gall....
 
Goober and Camochick,

You are both way out of line. I am appauled that you would suggest that our beloved GG is not worth 25 million. The only way that aurgument could be supported would be to suggest that she needs more money.

How else are we Canadians supposed to feel pride. She is imbeded into my soul as a vile of blood is imbeded into Istvan Kantor's anus.

For those unaware of this Mr. Kantor recently won the Governor Generals visual arts award.

See link; http://www.cbc.ca/arts/send/govgenart030304

'No-holds-barred' artist wins Governor General's award
Last Updated Wed, 03 Mar 2004

OTTAWA - A performance artist who once lay naked in a shallow grave with a vial of his own blood dribbling out of his anus is among seven winners of one of Canada's most prestigious visual arts awards this year.

Described by the jury for the 2004 Governor General's Awards in Visual and Media Arts as a "no-holds-barred, neo-Dada" artist, Toronto-based Istvan Kantor is being honoured for his entire body of work, which blends music, kinetic sculpture, multimedia installations and, most famously, performance art.

"Kantor's use of blood is literal and personal. More than feces or sperm, blood is the spurting, contagious prima material of life," wrote Daniel Baird, art editor of the New York-based arts and culture magazine The Brooklyn Rail.

::)
 
"Kantor's use of blood is literal and personal. More than feces or sperm, blood is the spurting, contagious prima material of life"

Wow, thats, uh, pretty repulsive.



 
If any of you know-it-alls wants to post what the budget SHOULD be, and justify to the penny the exact amount, taking into consideration her schedule (including travel), her accommodations, her entertainment, etc. go right ahead.

Until then, save the phony anger.

Put up or shut up.
 
Oh my anger is not phony. Its pretty genuine.

I personally don't think that this individual should received 15,000 dollars of tax payers money to humiliate himself like that. I don't have to justify the Penny to Penney spending of the GG. She does. I question the value of the 5 million circumpolar trip by her and various other "outstanding Canadians."

Micheal, if you have a problem with me, may I suggest you PM me and see if we can work this out?
 
Bograt has a point.  I can't think of any useful role for the GG.  Why give her a $20 million budget when there's a so many better uses for that money.
 
hey how ya get that job,20 mill to start ,your own jet lemo,they wash the streets of vancouver for ya,don't want ya steepin on no dirty needles.hobnob with the rich&famous,send hubby out on a patrol with the boys in afghanastan in the morning,back to russia for a caviare supper(troops eat imp,s)wonder if she got same perks at cbc.mike im not resentfull,i'm just envious,hope i didn,t hurt your feelin's.you ain't got a picture of her pinned up in your room do ya :o
 
Unless someone has something intelligent to say in this thread, my padlock finger is getting itchy.

First of all did the arts endowment come out of the GG's budget?  If not, it is a seperate issue.

Secondly, and again, if you want to argue the merits of having a GG, check the other threads on this issue.

Thirdly, if you feel the budget is too much, fine, state why you feel that way, and what you think a more realistic alternative would be, justifying your answer with your detailed knowledge of her itinerary and needs.

Otherwise, this entire thread is just useless noise.
 
Before all the yahoo's s forget it out there,and until there is a change, the GG is The Head of State of Canada, and head of The Armed Forces. Do you expect her to represent Canada by flying Air Canada and traveling by Volkswagen?

This is typical partisan politics and knee jerk reaction without knowing the facts. Who here can say $19 million is too much without seeing line by line the GG's budget. If you scratch hard enough, you will probably find Pat Martin is a Republican (in the Australian mold) and has his own agenda.

For instance, is part of the budget for maintaince and upkeep of Rideau Hall and its staff. Is she expected to host functions out of her own pocket. She performs her job as she is suppose to. Who greeted the wounded troops in Germany coming back from Afghanistan.

I will say this because the media and the peanut gallery perpetuate it. If bullshit is said enough, it becomes truth. If "unbiased newsreports" keeping calling her trips "Lavish" enough times, it somehow becomes fact. Was the trip to Russia a waste of time, a vacation, or the GG showcasing Canadian talent. If you don't know, keep your opinions to yourself.

The GG award is a red herring and has nothing to do with the current discussion. If you think she picks the awards personally instead of by committee then you are part of the peanut gallery.
 
Just to throw a little more fuel on the fire  ;D

The House of Commons Committee on government operations and estimates is starting a review of the mandate and spending of the Governor General to see if Canadians are getting their money's worth. The Toronto Star reports that the committee will also look at the spending of other federal government departments on the Governor General.

The cost of the Governor General's office drew public attention last fall when Governor General Adrienne Clarkson and 59 prominent Canadians went on a circumpolar tour to promote the Canadian north. Media reports at the time estimated the cost of the tour at $1 million. By the time the final bills were in and the costs of all government departments involved were tallied, the trip cost $5.3 million. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has since cancelled plans for a second tour.

While the Governor General's own budget went from $10 million in 1995 to $19.1 million in 2003, costs covered by other federal government departments for the Governor General rose from $307,000 to $15 million.

http://canadaonline.about.com/b/a/2004_02_25.htm


So the real cost of having a Governor General is closer to $34 million.

Mike, I don't need a knowledge of her itinerary or needs in order to know we're giving her way too much money.  Just like I don't need to know how much every component of the gun registry cost in order to know that $1 billion was way too much for the combined cost of the program.  Nor, when I go out to buy a car, do I need to know how much every nut and bolt costs in order to determine wether or not I'm getting a good deal.  I don't know why you're getting so upset by this discussion, but I think you're being a little unreasonable.  Just my opinion, if anyone thinks I'm wrong, feel free to tell I'm a dumbass  :P
 
OK now, I had the great priviledge of working at Rideau Hall for two years as an Aide-de-camp to the GG and all I can tell you is that she works harder than any previous GG. She does twice as much (statistically) as any of her predecessors and honestly tries to use her influence to improve Canada. She passionately represents the CF and the troops who serve overseas and makes a considerable effort to visit troops overseas. She could have spent her last four Christmas vacations relaxing in Canada but instead she chose to visit soldiers in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf. She didn't have to personally visit the families of every soldier who has died on operations in recent memory, but she insisted that she do just that. No one told her to visit over 300 communities a year, including many remote, impoversihed native communities, be she did so with enthusiasm because she wants to help those people. She doesn't have to meet with drug users and street kids in Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon and Toronto but she does because she wants to draw attention to their plight. She did not fly to Russia, Finland and Iceland to meet with business people (she didn't meet any business people). She went there to show Canada to the world. She went to show the Russians, the Finns and the Icelanders that we are a great country full of talented people. You may think that this isn't important I'll ask you this: how do you want the world to see Canada? As a bunch of cheap penny-pinchers with an immature attitude towards culture, diplomacy and international relations? Or as a world leader in arts, literature, democracy, federalism, etc?

Yes her budget has increased and yes it may appear extravagent to the average Joe, but the fact remains that we need a Head of State and we either do it right (as I think she is) or we give up the game and go back to being a British colony or annex ourselves to the US.

For all of you who have spoke out of your a**es, I invite you to actually look into the GG's schedule and her budget and tell me where you think the cuts could be made.

Pro Patria

MG
 
Mortar guy said:
She went to show the Russians, the Finns and the Icelanders that we are a great country full of talented people. You may think that this isn't important I'll ask you this: how do you want the world to see Canada? As a bunch of cheap penny-pinchers with an immature attitude towards culture, diplomacy and international relations? Or as a world leader in arts, literature, democracy, federalism, etc?

Shouldn't promoting culture, arts, and literature be the job of our artists?  They're the ones creating it and making a living from it, why do we need a person spending $30 million a year to advertise them?  Don't we have diplomats and politicians to handle matters of "diplomacy and international relations"?  Isn't that part of THEIR job description?

Don't get me wrong, I like our current GG, and I even like having the connection to the British royalty that the GG represents, I just think that half the things she's doing are better handled by others.


Mortar guy said:
Yes her budget has increased and yes it may appear extravagent to the average Joe, but the fact remains that we need a Head of State and we either do it right (as I think she is) or we give up the game and go back to being a British colony or annex ourselves to the US.

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make more sense to have an ELECTED head of state?  Like, oh, I don't know, the Prime Minister maybe?
 
48Highlander said:
Shouldn't promoting culture, arts, and literature be the job of our artists?  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA

Like the one referenced in this very thread??

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make more sense to have an ELECTED head of state?   Like, oh, I don't know, the Prime Minister maybe?

Call me crazy, but isn't that off topic?  There are other threads devoted to electing a head of state. 
 
Michael Dorosh said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA

Like the one referenced in this very thread??

    Yes, exactly.  Why should we as taxpayers give any money towards getting him reckognition?  What do you think presents a better image of Canada, a guy like that promoting himself, or him being promoted and reckognized by our highest official?  And even when she's reckognizing artists with actual talent, it's still something that'd be better off being done by the artists themselves.

Michael Dorosh said:
Call me crazy, but isn't that off topic?  There are other threads devoted to electing a head of state. 

Just attempting to answer the statement that "we need a Head of State and we either do it right (as I think she is) or we give up the game and go back to being a British colony or annex ourselves to the US".  Saying that without the GG as a figurehead, we might as well be part of the UK or US is a little extreme don't you think?  The position holds no real power.  The GG is just a figurehead, the REAL head of state is the PM.  Also, now that I think of it, the reason we HAVE a GG is because we WERE a Brittish colony, so I don't know how Mortar guy equates getting rid of the GG with becoming a colony again.....
 
Sorry Michael for moving more off topic but:

Look at most successful (read democratic) nations and you will see that the Head of State and Head of Government are separate.

As for artist looking after themselves.. a bit myopic isn't it. A guess we should have told the GG to stay at home, we'll see the wounded ourselves. Or northerners, have elected officials, let them look after themselves.

If you look deep enough, you will probably find that the GG had clearances from External Affairs and the PMO to go to Russia. They could have vetoed. So the presumption that the GG gather all the artists together and jump on a plane to Russia and merrily burned taxpayers dollars is naive to say the least and unfair at best..
 
48Highlander said:
    Yes, exactly.  Why should we as taxpayers give any money towards getting him reckognition?  What do you think presents a better image of Canada, a guy like that promoting himself, or him being promoted and reckognized by our highest official? .

You have a solid point here, however, the GG's budget is not the problem, it is the quality of our artists!

Just attempting to answer the statement that "we need a Head of State and we either do it right (as I think she is) or we give up the game and go back to being a British colony or annex ourselves to the US".  Saying that without the GG as a figurehead, we might as well be part of the UK or US is a little extreme don't you think?  The position holds no real power.  The GG is just a figurehead, the REAL head of state is the PM.  Also, now that I think of it, the reason we HAVE a GG is because we WERE a Brittish colony, so I don't know how Mortar guy equates getting rid of the GG with becoming a colony again.....

As they say in the last half hour of Law and Order - "I'll allow it."  RCA addresses this point well in his last post.
 
Our GG may have caviar tastes, but let those of us in uniform not forget who our friends are. I have never seen a GG who stood by the military as closely as Mme Clarkson. She has taken it upon herself and her office to provide a leadership presence to the military that our elected leaders have chosen to abdicate in favour of fatuous comments and wandering about with their helmets on backwards. Previous GGs have done no better by us and in some cases have done nothing. Before we start slandering her and her very good intentions, I suggest we think on that for just a moment. It is a pity that a non-elected HOS does it for us when it shoud be our PM, but there you are. As she spends the public money she must of course be pubilcly accountable but I do not buy this venom I see dripping here, including from several of us who owe a personal allegiance to her as the rep of HM. We may question the eventual future of the Monarchy in Canada (I know I do) but for now it is our system and some of us have sworn an oath of loyalty to it. Loyalty does not equate to blindness but it normally includes a modicum of respect.

As for the statement that in most successful democracies the HOG and HOS are separate-where does that leave the US?

Cheers.

 
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