P.E.R signed after June 1st

[armyvern]

Vern,
In all the time you've written PERs, have you never had one returned because there were actual mistakes on it? Not small grammar things, but things like the dots filled wrong, or incorrect info (SN, rank, unit)? If so, this answers the question why it takes so long to get them back to you. There is usually only one poor sole responsible for the crappy job of checking every stinking PER in a unit to make sure they don't get sent to Ottawa with incorrect info so that the troops aren't getting screwed by the supervisor who doesn't pay attention to detail.

And believe me, it sucks when a PER comes all the way back from being signed by a Formation commander, and the first thing a member says when being debriefed is "My name has two Ls in it, not one."

Oh yes.

BUT, sorry all those typos and grammatical errors are fixed before* it leaves the Unit to go to Branch, Base for signatures.

So, that does NOT answer the question as to why - 2.5 months later they are STILL outside of our Unit with us bustling about screaming "we need these back to get the member's signature!! They are due in Ottawa signed in 2 days!" Perhaps, if they didn't take 2 months to do boards and sign them at higher ... there wouldn't be an issue.

*Before: as in "I" was the pers responsible to review/correct ours at the Coy level prior to their movement out to Branch and Base ... and they were good to go and sent higher months before we got them back from higher with the CoC signatures on them so that we could actually debrief our troops, have them sign and then get them to Ottawa.


Oh, and as a side-note: 99.9% of the time when the member does find a typo in it when he goes to sign it ... a review of the original and previous draft held until the final comes back ... shows that the error in grammar or typing was made outside of the Unit by someone else fiddling with it higher in the CoC - not the supervisor, so let's put that myth to rest right now.

 

[captloadie]

I'll call BS on that Vern. I have sat at the Wing level, and still saw hundreds of PERs that had passed through the unit and Branch level and still had mistakes in them. That is why they are all rechecked again, which takes a lot of time. The ones from Supply get put on the same pile for that one or two people assigned at the Wing level to do Permon. So even if yours didn't have mistakes, the other 300 sent in for signature might have.

 

[armyvern]

I'll call BS on that Vern. I have sat at the Wing level, and still saw hundreds of PERs that had passed through the unit and Branch level and still had mistakes in them. That is why they are all rechecked again, which takes a lot of time. The ones from Supply get put on the same pile for that one or two people assigned at the Wing level to do Permon. So even if yours didn't have mistakes, the other 300 sent in for signature might have.

Then, get mine signed and sent back to me so that MY Unit isn't getting it's troops fucked over by missing deadlines because some other Unit can't sort itself out.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Reminds me of the time every single one of our Coy PERs came back from Base with the "potential" blocks ALL changed to present tense ... so that we had to then re-do every fracking one of them because someone felt they knew better and managed to screw the whole lot of them up. Meanwhile, they were bitching at us about "how off" our original submissions had been. Uhmmm, nope - it wasn't us who was off. I think it's hilarious when higher makes 10000 and 1 changes to a member's PER only to have it read closer to the actual original submission when it eventually returns --- because all those higher need to add their own tweaks. Talk about making admin for oneself.

 

[meni0n]

It's soon time to sign the first PDR of the year, so how long is too long waiting to sign a PER? I doubt we will see ours before August due to leave and posting season.

 

[Gunner98]

The basic answer to meeting PER timelines is making those responsible, accountable for missing the deadline.  There are several dots in the performance section in which a supervisor at any level can and should be downgraded for inefficient time management and use of the CFPAS process.  The simple answer is that we (the collective we) need to clearly identify offenders that have affected the timely flow and use administrative action to record/reprimand their inefficiencies and unacceptable time management skills.  Each level of supervision should not receive their PER for signature until every subordinate below them has been debriefed and signed their PER.

We must use DND 728 (or equivalent) to track the flow and have date stamps (ink or electronic) to correspond to signatures.  Simply, leaders need to lead.

I had my theatre PER unexpectedly dropped in front of me by the designated Senior Canadian Representative (LCol), during a hectic, evening, Battle Update Brief in a room with 40 people.  The fact that I was coordinating an Airmedevac at the time by telephone, did not seem to concern the superior, nor did the fact that the Section 6 was not signed by his boss. 

We simply have to better.  On the positive side I did receive it before I left theatre.  On the negative side, my direct supervisor did not debrief me ever and the passage of the paper was how I was informed of several levels of the chain of command's observations about my 7-month performance in a busy, multinational combat headquarters in the sandbox.

 

[armyvern]

The basic answer to meeting PER timelines is making those responsible, accountable for missing the deadline.  There are several dots in the performance section in which a supervisor at any level can and should be downgraded for inefficient time management and use of the CFPAS process.  The simple answer is that we (the collective we) need to clearly identify offenders that have affected the timely flow and use administrative action to record/reprimand their inefficiencies and unacceptable time management skills.  Each level of supervision should not receive their PER for signature until every subordinate below them has been debriefed and signed their PER.
...

+100. As I stated in my first post ... there simply is NO incentive currently to get those causing the holdups working more effeciently and in a more timely manner. Waiting until D minus 2 for the Comd to sign them is simply not acceptable because in the meantime, Troop X has probably been tasked, is on course etc and is now - months later - not available to sign the thing at a debrief. Meanwhile, it's only Troop X whose career suffers the consequences. Unless, of course, we send NO troops anywhere after 01 April until Day X that the CoC finally signs off and sends back down the CoC for the troop debrief/signature & you just know that isn't going to fly.

 

[captloadie]

Two Points Army Vern:
1) I applaud the fact you have never made an error in your career (or so it would seem from the above posts);
2) At your new rank, you are soon going to have to stop blamming the higher ups and the CoC. You are the higher ups now, and it isn't always the guys who were the bars who need to take the blame.

 

[armyvern]

Two Points Army Vern:
1) I applaud the fact you have never made an error in your career (or so it would seem from the above posts);
2) At your new rank, you are soon going to have to stop blamming the higher ups and the CoC. You are the higher ups now, and it isn't always the guys who were the bars who need to take the blame.

Oh, I've made errors - you'll note that I didn't say 100% in my earlier. Each and every Unit that I have served with (obviously perhaps not those you've served with) have had our PERs in to higher level for higher appropriate action months before June, yet we never seem to get them back to hand out until end-May.

I have been a member of "higher" for quite some time now ... and my supervisors are held to, and accountable to meet, their assigned "due" dates by me. That's my job and I do it. I, being a mere MWO, have no control over what happens when they get to Branch/Base level ... but, believe-you-me ... I ask loudly "where are they?? We need them back" <--- and that is also my job, but at the end of the day ... I can't make those outside of us get work done; that's not my job. So, someone else will have to hold them accountable.

 

[captloadie]

Just so everyone knows, I am doing all this defending of the process even though my PER arrived to me here on my outcan posting only last week for signature. And, unfortunately, as stellar as it was, it has to be redone as I was promoted 1 Jan and it was written based on my old rank.  ;D

 

[armyvern]

Just so everyone knows, I am doing all this defending of the process even though my PER arrived to me here on my outcan posting only last week for signature. And, unfortunately, as stellar as it was, it has to be redone as I was promoted 1 Jan and it was written based on my old rank.  ;D

Well, now here's a question ...

Now that your career has implications due to it's lateness at central ... who is holding accountable the pers who screwed it up and making their career accountable for their own error instead of your career?

That's the point.

 

[Pusser]

I would like to know who the Einstein was who decided that we should use the fiscal year as the reporting period.  Managing a multi-million dollar budget with all kinds of pressure to micro-manage it down to the last penny in the final quarter (ensuring all goods are received prior to 31 March) means I have all kinds of extra time to spend on PERs.  Hmmm.  Write good PERs (review subordinate supervisors work), ensure budget properly managed, have a life - pick two. :-\

 

[captloadie]

That is a brilliant point. Hand in your budget forecasts or PAYEs late, and for sure that will affect your PER. Get your PERS done late, well, that's not so bad.  :

 

[x-zipperhead]

I am still waiting. It went back to the wing twice for corrections and then got sent to Ottawa without being debriefed.......the lack of my signature wasn't  enough of a clue I guess.  I am told it is on it's slow journey back for debriefing.  Frustrating? yes. 

If the boards don't sit until the fall am I getting screwed and if so, how?

 

[Pusser]

That's incredible!  That a PER could get sent to Ottawa without the member's signature is completely unacceptable.  That's a chain of command that doesn't give a damn.

 

[captloadie]

It is unlikely a CoC of command that doesn't give a damn. It is likely one individual somewhere who either doesn't give a damn, or is human and makes mistakes. If I'm a supervisor and go everyday to the Admin O and ask where my PERS are, and everyday they tell me, the register says its still at the Wing, all I can do is push the subject so far. And if by accident or carelessness someone didn't properly track those PERs, and they ended up in the wrong envelope, and oops, now it is in Ottawa unsigned, they will get sent back. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should be laissez faire about PERS, but we also have to be reasonable.

X-zipperhead - you are not being screwed at all by this mistake. Even if your PER were to arrive the day of the board in Ottawa, as long as the CM knew it was coming, it would be included if need be. Even if it arrived late, and it was justified by the score of the PER, a supplemental board would likely be held to slot you into the correct spot on the merit list.

 

[x-zipperhead]

It was just a honest mistake by an individual.  It was actually the CoC that was following up and discovered the error.  I am not terribly worked up over it. 

As  I read through the thread, I just started wondering what some of the negative career implications might be that folks were referring to.  I now see that  there really are no implications.

Thanks for the input. That clears things up.