Pakistan, Afghan troops exchange fire at border

[GAP]

I wonder what the real story behind this is......

Pakistan, Afghan troops exchange fire at border
Updated Sun. May. 13 2007 10:53 PM ET Associated Press
Article Link

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistani and Afghan forces exchanged fire at their rugged border in their most serious skirmish in years.

Pakistan said it killed five Afghan soldiers in the fighting Sunday but Afghanistan said just two Afghan civilians died.

Tension has been running high between Afghanistan and Pakistan, its eastern neighbour, over controlling the 2,430-kilometre border and stemming the flow of Taliban and al Qaeda militants that stage cross-border attacks inside Afghanistan. Pakistan's move to fence parts of the disputed frontier has also angered Afghanistan.

Pakistan army spokesman Maj.-Gen. Waheed Arshad accused the Afghan army of sparking the two-hour gunbattle with "unprovoked'' fire at about six Pakistani border posts in Kurram Agency, a Pakistani tribal region opposite Afghanistan's Paktia province.

A Pakistan military statement said troops from its Frontier Corps returned fire and five Afghan National Army soldiers were killed. Arshad initially put the toll at six or seven and said three Pakistani troops were wounded.

"This was unprovoked and without any reason,'' Arshad said.

On the Afghan side, Defence Ministry spokesman Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi accused Pakistani forces of encroaching two to three kilometres inside Paktia province's Jajai district.
More on link

 

[Bigmac]

      I would bet that the current political unrest and violence in Pakistan is to blame.  This will not help our cause in Afghanistan.

Pakistan Burning

From correspondents in Delhi, India, 07:12 PM IST

The political crisis in Pakistan that has been seething for a while has finally come to boil. What started as another protest rally by opposition parties against the sacking of the previous Chief Justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, on the eve of his visit to the southern city of Karachi, quickly spiraled into a political bloodbath which is now dangerously taking on ethnic colours.

At least 150 people were injured and 41 killed as rival gunmen virtually took control of the city over the weekend. Although authorities said that they had stepped up the number of troops in the city and had also imposed a shoot at sight order, reports of gun battles were still coming in from various quarters of the city in the wee hours of Monday. Locals fear that Karachi, the financial capital of Pakistan, will once again plunge back into those dark days of the 80’s and early 90’s when the city was ravaged by ethnic clashes between the Pashtuns and the Mohajirs or the emigrants from India.

More on story link below:

http://www.indiaenews.com/politics/20070514/51641.htm

 

[Kirkhill]

      I would bet that the current political unrest and violence in Pakistan is to blame.  This will not help our cause in Afghanistan.

Are you sure?  I think it might keep the ISI busy at home and wondering about their own backs.  It seems like a multi-sided fight shaping up. Chief Justice and Moderates vs Musharraf and Military (all tending towards Reformed Islam if not Secularism) vs ISI and the Ethnic Pashtuns.  Add in the DIS-organized tribals, Al Qaeda and the Chechens together with the prospect of Dostum heading off into Waziristan (with or without permission) and I get the sense that the battle lines might just have been moved a bit further east - away from Pakistani residents ability to influence events in Afghanistan.

Hotels in Quetta might not be as secure as they once were.

 

[Bigmac]

Are you sure?  I think it might keep the ISI busy at home and wondering about their own backs. 

     Perhaps you are right Kirkhill. It would appear that some of the Afghanistan crap is now being flung in Pakistan's direction.

Suicide bombing kills 24 at hotel in northwest Pakistan city of Peshawar

RIAZ KHAN

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) - A suicide attacker detonated a bomb that ripped through a crowded hotel restaurant in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Tuesday, killing at least 24 people and wounding 25, police said.

The blast deepened instability in Pakistan, still reeling from bloody political riots over the weekend in its commercial capital, Karachi. The attack appeared unrelated to that unrest. Provincial police chief Sharif Virk said investigators had found the legs of the suspected suicide bomber, with a message taped to one leg that said spies for America would meet this fate.

Peshawar is the capital of North West Frontier Province, a region bordering Afghanistan where pro-Taliban and al-Qaida-linked militants are active.

Virk said below the message attached the leg was written the word "Khurasan" - a Persian word often used in militant videos to describe Afghanistan.

more on link: http://www.recorder.ca/cp/World/070515/w051523A.html

 

[Kirkhill]

investigators had found the legs of the suspected suicide bomber, with a message taped to one leg that said spies for America would meet this fate.

So ..... was this another willing martyr,  was the bomber "volunteered" for the task or was it a "remotely detonated spy"?  A few mixed messages there.

Virk said below the message attached the leg was written the word "Khurasan" - a Persian word often used in militant videos to describe Afghanistan.

And there is the third "leg" in the triangle of the Great Game.  For all that Russia and Britain were involved in Afghan politics in the 18th and 19th century they were late comers to the sport.  Persian Iran has been involved since before the time of Alexander the Great. 

Here's one summary of the intra-mural Game played amongst Muslim Persians, Afghans and Indians in the 18th century prior to the involvement of the Brits and the Russians.

http://www.bartleby.com/67/819.html

 

[Flip]

This might be the kind of noise that could flush Osama from his hide.

If he is in Pakistan, how long will he be welcome?

If Musharaff is ousted - then what?

Hmmm

 

[Kirkhill]

Here is the other side of Pakistan - the non-Islamist side.  The western oriented side.

"Islamic parties have never garnered more than 13 percent in any free parliamentary elections in Pakistan"

http://www.benazirbhutto.net/

A False Choice for Pakistan

By Benazir Bhutto
Monday, March 12, 2007; Page A13

Last month President Bush told Gen. Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan that he must be more aggressive in hunting down al-Qaeda and the Taliban along his country's border with Afghanistan. During his recent visit to Islamabad, Vice President Cheney echoed the claim that al-Qaeda members were training in Pakistan's tribal areas and called on Musharraf to shut down their operations. British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett also expressed concern recently about suspected terrorist safe havens.

Clearly, the pressure is on. Western leaders are finally beginning to recognize that Musharraf's regime has been unsuccessful in taming the Taliban, which has regrouped in the tribal areas of Pakistan while the military regime has given up trying to establish order on the Afghan border. At the same time, the regime has strategically chosen to help the United States when international criticism of the terrorists' presence becomes strident. The arrest of Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, a top Taliban strategist, by Pakistani authorities late last month is a case in point. The timing, right on the heels of American and British pleas for renewed toughness, is too convenient. Akhund was arrested solely to keep Western governments at bay.


There are other political calculations in all of this. For too long, the international perception has been that Musharraf's regime is the only thing standing between the West and nuclear-armed fundamentalists.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Islamic parties have never garnered more than 13 percent in any free parliamentary elections in Pakistan. The notion of Musharraf's regime as the only non-Islamist option is disingenuous and the worst type of fear-mongering.

Much has been said about Pakistan being a key Western ally in the war against terrorism. It is the fifth-largest recipient of U.S. aid -- the Bush administration proposed $785 million in its latest budget. Yet terrorism around the world has increased. Why is it that all terrorist plots -- from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai -- seem to have roots in Islamabad?

Pakistan's military and intelligence services have, for decades, used religious parties for recruits. Political madrassas -- religious schools that preach terrorism by perverting the faith of Islam -- have spread by the tens of thousands.

The West has been shortsighted in dealing with Pakistan. When the United States aligns with dictatorships and totalitarian regimes, it compromises the basic democratic principles of its foundation -- namely, life, liberty and justice for all. Dictatorships such as Musharraf's suppress individual rights and freedoms and empower the most extreme elements of society. Oppressed citizens, unable to represent themselves through other means, often turn to extremism and religious fundamentalism.

Restoring democracy through free, fair, transparent and internationally supervised elections is the only way to return Pakistan to civilization and marginalize the extremists. A democratic Pakistan, free from the yoke of military dictatorship, would cease to be a breeding ground for international terrorism.

Indeed, Pakistan's return to democracy is essential to America's success in South and Central Asia, as well as in the Middle East, as democratization is an integral part of fighting terrorism. Wouldn't it therefore be prudent to tie aid money to genuine political reform?

Pakistan must take steps toward hunting down al-Qaeda operatives in the "ungovernable" tribal and border areas -- which were once successfully governed by democratically elected civilian governments. The regime must also stop its intimidation tactics of recent weeks, which include brutal murders, assassination attempts and other attacks on opposition party members.

Of course Musharraf's regime, to legitimize its coup and divert attention from the institutionalized corruption of the military, accuses Pakistan's secular, democratic parties of corruption. But according to Transparency International, 67 percent of the people believe the regime is corrupt, surpassing the rate for past civilian governments. Musharraf's regime has lasted twice as long as any civilian government in Pakistan. Yet not one of its ministers or key political supporters has been investigated.

The National Accountability Bureau has persecuted opposition leaders for a decade on unproven corruption and mismanagement charges, hoping to grind them into submission. However, when politicians accused of corruption cross over to the regime, the charges miraculously disappear. Musharraf's regime exploits the judicial system as yet another instrument of coercion and intimidation to consolidate its illegitimate power. But the politics of personal destruction will not prevent me and other party leaders from bringing our case before the people of our nation this year, even if that could lead to imprisonment.

In his State of the Union address in January, President Bush said, "The great question of our day is whether America will help men and women in the Middle East to build free societies and share in the rights of all humanity. And I say, for the sake of our own security: We must."

This holds true for countries in South and Central Asia as well. Now is the time to force Pakistan's government to make good on its promise to return to democracy.

The writer is chairwoman of the Pakistan People's Party and served as prime minister of Pakistan from 1988 to 1990 and from 1993 to 1996. She lives in exile in Dubai.

 

[Falange]

A realist scholar would argue that this is a consequence from the longstanding conflictive relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pre-Taliban governments since the days of partition wanted to annex the NWFP and the Waziristan provinces to create a homeland for all the Pashtun of Central Asia, and has been since then that Islamabad has sought ways to debilitate Kabul or control it through proxy governments. However taking into consideration P. Musharraf policies of devolution towards the Waziri and NWFP Pashto, and the current contentious situation regarding Pakistani politics I would say that the engagement was rather the product of miscommunication between both Afghan and Pakistani troops. I do not think that it is on Islamabad's interest to start a political conflict with Kabul, because as it was mentioned before it has enough to deal with in its own borders and that includes the present borderline of Balochistan, NWFP and Waziristan. Maybe, there has to be further communication and transparency by part of the Pakistani forces. It would not hurt if NATO and Kabul knew what are they up to on the other side in order to cooperate. I think all the cooperation we can get from Pakistan is key to help neutralize the Taleban.

Regarding Benazir Bhutto and the PPP... they have a terrible record regarding the sub-national groups (Pashtun and Baluchis). It was during her father's rule when these groups became reactive, Zia armed them, and Benazir just looked the other way as the Taliban was marching further north. Democracy would definetly help Pakistan... but this cannot be done just like that, especially with all the Mullahs just looking out for ways to extent their tentacles into the government.

 

[Bigmac]

         Things are certainly boiling over between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Maybe we should let the ANA take care of business??! Let them fight it out with Pakistan border patrol and they can make a jam sandwich out of the Taliban and Al Quada who get caught in the middle!

Angry Afghans protest at Pakistan Embassy against border skirmishes

AMIR SHAH

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - About 1,000 Afghans shouting "Death to Pakistan" demonstrated in front of the Pakistan Embassy in Kabul on Wednesday to protest recent border violence.

Many of the demonstrators were from the eastern province of Paktika, where fighting between Afghan and Pakistani troops on Sunday and Monday killed at least 13 Afghan border guards and civilians - the most serious skirmishes in years between the neighbouring countries.

The demonstrators carried banners and shouted "Death to the ISI! Death to Musharraf," a reference to Pakistan's intelligence agency and President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

Afghan police wearing riot gear guarded the embassy in a downtown street. There were no reports of violence, but emotions ran high.

"We've run out of patience with Pakistan," said Sultan Uddin, 50, from the Jaji district of Paktika. "We're requesting President (Hamid) Karzai to give us weapons and remove the border police. We know how to deal with Pakistan."

Tensions have been running high between Afghanistan and Pakistan over controlling their 2,430-kilometre border and stemming the flow of Taliban and al-Qaida militants who stage attacks inside Afghanistan.

Afghan officials said this week's border clashes began when Pakistani soldiers entered Afghan territory. Pakistan said Afghan soldiers sparked the clashes by firing on border posts.

 

[Bigmac]

Link for remainder of story on my last post:

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/World/070516/w051611A.html

 

[geo]

         Things are certainly boiling over between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Maybe we should let the ANA take care of business??! Let them fight it out with Pakistan border patrol and they can make a jam sandwich out of the Taliban and Al Quada who get caught in the middle!

This would be a great ruse to get AQ and TB insurgents to come out of hiding to fight alongside their Pakistani brothers...... only for them to be "squashed" by both the Pakistani and Afghan forces   (and so... all was well in the world)

But, this isn't a Disney movie..... or is it?

 

[Bigmac]

        This is going to be interesting. It is like removing a hornets nest from inside your house; if you smash it how many hornets are inside and are you prepared to get stung? Maybe this tactic will flush out the Taliban, Al Quada and drug smugglers from these refugee camps but at what cost??
        What do you do with 10,000 displaced families? Do you send them back to Afghanistan to nothing or to another already overcrowded refugee camp in Pakistan where they will not be welcome and still have nothing. This is only going to fuel the resistance fire and Pakistan is about to add magnesium.
         Is there a better solution??

Clashes at Pakistan refugee camp

At least three Afghan refugees have been killed after clashes between Pakistani security forces and refugees in south-western Pakistan, police say.
Both sides say the other started the violence in Pir Alizai camp after officials tried to demolish homes.

The camp, set up for Afghan refugees after the 1979 Soviet invasion, is to be closed down by next month.

Islamabad says the camps are used by militants and drug gangs. Many refugees say they want to stay in Pakistan.

The clashes come a day after violence - in which at least 70 shops and three houses were destroyed - at another Afghan refugee camp, Katchagarhai in North West Frontier Province (NWFP).

The Pakistani authorities also want to shut Katchagarhai.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6662367.stm