Pay Increment why so few?

[Biggoals2bdone]

I didn't know where else to put this, so if any mods want to move it, feel free.

I did a search and didn't find anything this train of thought.

Was just wondering, while reviewing the pay scales/rates why there are only 4-5 pay increments for NCM's yet for Sub-Lieutenants/2nd Lieutenants, Leftenants/captains there approximately 9-10.

If the logic is that command opportunities are limited and they have to factor that in for promotions, therefore they offset that by having more pay increments, so as not to stagnate. That would be flawed in that they are not applying that to NCM's because the same could be said of them.

Reasoning?  hypothesis?  Anyone?

 

[Neolithium]

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/faq/index-eng.asp
Bottom of the page  :nod:

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Roger that, thanks.

Although I can see the reasoning, I don't particularly agree with it completely (its sound in the establishment of salary base, but limits the long term progression, which kind of sucks for the guys who don't have leadership qualities and who won't make it past LS/Cpl), I also think the officers are maybe looking out for each other a lil more.

but just my 2 cents.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Roger that, thanks.

Although I can see the reasoning, I don't particularly agree with it completely (its sound in the establishment of salary base, but limits the long term progression, which kind of sucks for the guys who don't have leadership qualities and who won't make it past LS/Cpl), I also think the officers are maybe looking out for each other a lil more.

but just my 2 cents.

You're right, the officers are looking out for themselves by controlling the way the TREASURY BOARD dictates federal government salaries.

 

[aesop081]

Roger that, thanks.

Although I can see the reasoning, I don't particularly agree with it completely (its sound in the establishment of salary base, but limits the long term progression, which kind of sucks for the guys who don't have leadership qualities and who won't make it past LS/Cpl), I also think the officers are maybe looking out for each other a lil more.

but just my 2 cents.

The lower and upper limits of pay were set by treasury board. Divide the pay scale into 10 increments if you want to, you're still not going to make any more money.

:

 

[PMedMoe]

I heard this comment once during a discussion of NCM vs. Officer pay increments:

"Would you rather reach your max salary in 4-5 years or in 10?"

Your choice.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I knew it!  Those darn Officers!  :blotto:

I'm calling the Ombudsmen righttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...now!

 

[Michael OLeary]

I knew it!  Those darn Officers!  :blotto:

I'm calling the Ombudsmen righttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...now!

Feel free.  And the NCM pay scales can all be adjusted to 10 increments.  The TB will be delighted that few ever reach their maximum salary before promotion (or release, etc.).

Of course, you and Biggirls2bedone might want to hide from all those who liked the idea of hitting their maximum salary in 4 years.

(Just another :2c: which can be split ten ways instead of four.)

 

[gcclarke]

I'm fairly certain that you'd be hard pressed to find Officers who would begrudge a raise given to the NCMs in the Forces. If, for example, the equation was re-jiggered such that a CWO topped out at the top of the Captain scale, or the middle of the Major scale, or something similar, the reaction from the officer corps would be most likely be along the lines of "well that's good for them." After all, NCMs getting paid more wouldn't mean that we'd be getting paid any less.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Feel free.  And the NCM pay scales can all be adjusted to 10 increments.  The TB will be delighted that few ever reach their maximum salary before promotion (or release, etc.).

Of course, you and Biggirls2bedone might want to hide from all those who liked the idea of hitting their maximum salary in 4 years.

(Just another :2c: which can be split ten ways instead of four.)

Well, only if they will put an article in the Maple Leaf, with my picture, address, work location, and license plate number on my car, so the many, many thankful Jnr Ranks, Snr NCO and WOs can personally *thank me*!  ;D

Wait.  I just realized that won't work.  No one reads The Maple Leaf!  >

 

[RHFC_piper]

Something to consider;

A Pte joining the CF with minimal education makes approx. $16.40/h* ($31488 per year) gross.

A 2lt DEO (after spending 4+ years in university) makes approx. $22.44/h* ($43080 per year) gross.

*based on 40h work week... relating to the civilian world (I know some trades bearly work 20hs a week and some can't get enough done in a 60h week... this is just an average)


They are both equally welcome to get a job at McDonalds for $10/h, or a factory for $12/h.

Just some food for though...  The CF pays increadibly well and is the most stable employer in Canada (especially now). As a fellow recruiter once put it "as long as the Canadian flag is flying, you will have a job".

And Let's not forget benefits. Good luck finding a job with equal benefits.

Whether officer or NCM; we get paid very well... please feel free to research your civilian options based on professional education and equate them to what the CF is paying you to do... I can almost guarantee you are being paid above par.
http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Ok I don't know why all the snarky comments (except the treasury board one I get it, should have read a bit more)

I was bitching about ooooh boooohooo I don't make enough, but rather why officers got to progress longer in terms of salary.

How many Lt(N) do you know who stay in rank 5-10years or in some cases the rest of their careers...which ends up netting them 80-100k a year gross (at the 10yr mark)

and we all know an LS/Cpl who's been at that rank for 5-10years (especially certain trades where its clogged up) but he topped out at year 4-5 and won't see more then 58-60k Gross

but both ranks are essentially "gimmes" (you get Lt(N) or LS within 4 years pretty much depending on how long your trades training takes)

was just a simple question, since I know a few JR's who eventually want to get their commission since they see it as a better financial option for the long haul.

and I just found it strange that a Chief (CPO1) made as little as the mid-upper end of a Lt(N) considering it is the TOP of the NCM structure and they take on quite a bit of duties/responsibilities.

i'm not looking to quit the military to leave for McDonald's btw to whoever said that...

 

[Loachman]

I do not know too many Naval Lieutenants, but I do know a pile of senior Captains in various places, many of whom achieved their top incentive pay years ago and now only get the annual cost-of-living increase. Many of those are Pilots, like me. Unlike many other Officers, there are few leadership positions for Pilots, as the majority fill plane-driving slots on Squadrons. Many choose to remain at that rank - as one goes higher, there are fewer and fewer flying positions available. One will therefore spend more and more time in staff positions. Many guys do not want to trade flying for paper pushing for a dollar or two more per day, and lose several hundred dollars of Aircrew Allowance monthly in the process. Yup - get promoted and take both a pay cut and a fun cut.

That's a personal choice, as is deciding between Officer or NCM career paths.

The upper and lower pay brackets for each rank have been decided upon by Treasury Board, as has been explained. The effects of varying numbers of incentive pay categories have also been explained. More incentives does not equal more money, only longer to get to the top level for one's MOC and rank.

I most likely have more time in rank than you have on the planet. I ran out of incentive pay categories fourteen years ago. If there were twenty-four incents, I'd still be making exactly the same amount today, but I would have been making less for the last fourteen years and therefore less overall. Had there only been five incents, then I would have made more money overall as I would have reached the top level five years sooner than I did. The top level, set by Treasury Board, will not change either way.

CWOs and CPO1s do not (normally) command, so the level of responsibility is not the same.

 

[gcclarke]

I was bitching about ooooh boooohooo I don't make enough, but rather why officers got to progress longer in terms of salary.

How many Lt(N) do you know who stay in rank 5-10years or in some cases the rest of their careers...which ends up netting them 80-100k a year gross (at the 10yr mark)

and we all know an LS/Cpl who's been at that rank for 5-10years (especially certain trades where its clogged up) but he topped out at year 4-5 and won't see more then 58-60k Gross

but both ranks are essentially "gimmes" (you get Lt(N) or LS within 4 years pretty much depending on how long your trades training takes)

Officers get the "privilege" of taking much longer to reach their maximum salary in rank because the Treasury Board mandated salary ranges for those ranks are broader. Again, if this seems unfair, realize that the alternative is either making NCMs take longer to reach their maximum salary range, or allowing officers to reach their maximum salary range in only 4 years. I for one can say that I wouldn't mind that particular pay raise.

was just a simple question, since I know a few JR's who eventually want to get their commission since they see it as a better financial option for the long haul.

and I just found it strange that a Chief (CPO1) made as little as the mid-upper end of a Lt(N) considering it is the TOP of the NCM structure and they take on quite a bit of duties/responsibilities.

Well yes, financially it is a better deal. You'll be hard pressed to find any organization where the management / leadership gets paid less than the workers under them. Arguments could be made forever as to where exactly on the scale a CPO1 should top out, but as Loachman stated to, the level of responsibility assumed at various levels in ones career is not the same, so you cannot expect the compensation to be the same.

None of this changes the fact that overall, compared to the rest of Canada, all members of the Canadian Armed Forces are paid quite well, especially once you consider that we do have one of the best leave packages and pensions in the country.

 

[CountDC]

CWOs and CPO1s do not (normally) command, so the level of responsibility is not the same.

and there is the most important part of the post - level of responsibility.  As the officer you are ultimately responsible for everything your command and everyone in it does - including the Chiefs.  Compensation for responsibility is reasonable. Crap rolls downhill but if I screw up the Admiral or Capt(N) will not be jumping on my head, it is the LCdr that will bear the brunt of their lashings.

 

[CountDC]

One of the best?

You mean someone gets better leave and pension package than us?

Oh yeah - POLITICIANS!!