Pension Transfer Value / Lump Sum Pymt [Merged]

[wst997]

I was just wondering, what does the average NCM member who retired after 20 years get as a monthly pension. Dollar amount per cheque?

I know a few older security guards who are ex-military, and I always wondered if they have a government pension, why are they still working?

I know one of them served under the 4/16 plan as he put it. (4 years private/ 16 years corporal) and another one was a sergeant in the army.

Granted these guys weren't senior officers or officials so I'm assuming their pension would be a modest amount. But I would like to think that their pension should provide antiquate amounts for cost of living, unless they have expensive tastes or are living beyond there means?

I just think it's kind of sad that these follows who served our country, still have to work to make ends meet after retiring from the military with a pension.

 

[Brasidas]

I was just wondering, what does the average NCM member who retired after 20 years get as a monthly pension. Dollar amount per cheque?

I know a few older security guards who are ex-military, and I always wondered if they have a government pension, why are they still working?

I know one of them served under the 4/16 plan as he put it. (4 years private/ 16 years corporal) and another one was a sergeant in the army.

Granted these guys weren't senior officers or officials so I'm assuming their pension would be a modest amount. But I would like to think that their pension should provide antiquate amounts for cost of living, unless they have expensive tastes or are living beyond there means?

I just think it's kind of sad that these follows who served our country, still have to work to make ends meet after retiring from the military with a pension.

Back of the envelope calculation for a guy who retired in '09:

Average of the 04-08 monthly pay for a Cpl 4: $4403
40% of monthly pay, averaged for the past 5 years (2% a year for 20 years): $1761

That's the gross pension amount per month, before any taxes.

 

[maniac]

The average civilian hears what the politician after 6 years will get and automatically assume that military or public servant get the same,  not exactly.

Little know fact,  politician pensions are $14.00 paid by tax payer for every $1.00 and only need to serve 6 years to get it.

Military and PS is now 50/50 and min 25 yrs for military and 30 for PS for unreduced annuity.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

20 years

I just think it's kind of sad that these follows who served our country, still have to work to make ends meet after retiring from the military with a pension.

Try only working 20 years at almost any job and see if you can retire............

 

[brihard]

I just think it's kind of sad that these follows who served our country, still have to work to make ends meet after retiring from the military with a pension.

Let's say you join at 18 (not unusual) and do 20 years - or today I think it's 25 years to get an unreduced pension, so we'll go with that.

At the age of 43 you retire, and make 50% (25 years x 2%) of the average of your best five years' salary. You will make that until the day you die. Move to Australia, get thrown in jail, win the lottery, lose everything you have in the stock market, whatever. Every month you will get that pension. Anyway, that leaves a person with ample time for another full career.

Now, those who elect to be a 'lifer' can mx out their pension at 35 years with 70% of their best five years- and most will climb at least some rank in those 35 years. The pensions get to be certainly 'livable', and again, many continue to work part time or simply in something they enjoy after retirement.

But with life expectancy of something around 80 years or more, it's reasonable for the pensions to be commensurate with years of service versus how much is reasonably expected of a career. Good luck finding comparable defined benefit pension plans anymore outside of the best of the public sector.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Much better than my public sector pension, after only 20 years the early retirement takeaways would leave me with almost nothing.

 

[Infanteer]

I just think it's kind of sad that these follows who served our country, still have to work to make ends meet after retiring from the military with a pension.

Why would someone never need to work after the age of 40?

 

[maniac]

and there it is!  The drawing of parallels to private sector.  I wonder if the private sector has unlimited sacrifice and knowingly puts their people in harms way.  NO? Well I guess we don't have to draw anymore parallels.

Nothing against the private sector but they are typically better paid and should be administering their own retirements with RRSP's. 

 

[jeffb]

There is no comparison. In the private sector I have the option of getting a second job if I want. I have the option to negotiate my salary, collectively or otherwise. My charter rights are not limited in the private sector. Most importantly, I can not be moved across the country at a whim thus limiting the ability of my spouse to have a meaningful career. There is not comparison between the private, and even the rest of the public, sectors and the CF. A CF member faces a much higher likelihood of developing life long disabilities (arthritis, chronic knee and back issues, etc) then the general population.

Yes, CF members are well compensated but not unreasonably so and especially not with pensions.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There is no comparison. In the private sector I have the option of getting a second job if I want. I have the option to negotiate my salary, collectively or otherwise. My charter rights are not limited in the private sector. Most importantly, I can not be moved across the country at a whim thus limiting the ability of my spouse to have a meaningful career. There is not comparison between the private, and even the rest of the public, sectors and the CF. A CF member faces a much higher likelihood of developing life long disabilities (arthritis, chronic knee and back issues, etc) then the general population.

Yes, CF members are well compensated but not unreasonably so and especially not with pensions.

Could someone now post the inevitable "if you don't like it, don't join/get out"  post so we can bring this one to a speedy conclusion?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Could someone now post the inevitable "if you don't like it, don't join/get out"  post so we can bring this one to a speedy conclusion?

How about Godwin's Law.

OK, I just had to post it. ;D

 

[DAA]

Could someone now post the inevitable "if you don't like it, don't join/get out"  post so we can bring this one to a speedy conclusion?

Actually, the more expedient conclusion to all this is "If you can't afford to retire, then you shouldn't!"  Sometimes, even if you don't like the job, you just need to get on with it and do what you need to do.  The CF is no different than the private sector when it comes to this.

 

[brihard]

The risk we face (which is usually not present or negligible) is compensated by allowances specifically paid out when we're subjected to thsoe risks. Likewise many of the hardships. The moving around from time to time is part of the price paid for guaranteed job security and having a wide open horizon of career advancement. And I've defeinitely had serving reg force members deliver me pizza or check my ID at bars.

For those who actually are hurt or broken by service, there are separate programs and benefits for that. Our regular pension is not intended to compensate for that kind of hardship.

We have a bloody excellent and very fair pension system. I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If you don't like it, don't join or get the F out  ;D

 

[dimsum]

Let's say you join at 18 (not unusual) and do 20 years - or today I think it's 25 years to get an unreduced pension, so we'll go with that.

At the age of 43 you retire, and make 50% (25 years x 2%) of the average of your best five years' salary. You will make that until the day you die. Move to Australia, get thrown in jail, win the lottery, lose everything you have in the stock market, whatever. Every month you will get that pension. Anyway, that leaves a person with ample time for another full career.

I haven't really thought about this a lot (maybe I should start...) but in my case, with my previous service, I retire at 51 with 28.5 years pension (and "25" years service.)  Now, who would hire a 51-year old  ???

 

[dapaterson]

The average civilian hears what the politician after 6 years will get and automatically assume that military or public servant get the same,  not exactly.

Little know fact,  politician pensions are $14.00 paid by tax payer for every $1.00 and only need to serve 6 years to get it.

Military and PS is now 50/50 and min 25 yrs for military and 30 for PS for unreduced annuity.

No, it's not 50%.  Even with this year's increase, CF members only pay under 40% of their pension.  And a CF member joining at 17 can still retire at age 42 with 50% of the average of their best 5 years; with inflation protection at 65 (or possibly earlier - it's been a while since I looked at the regulations).

CF compensation is extremely good, despite the caterwauling from some sectors.  A Reg F Cpl makes well above the average Canadian income.  Join at 18, and by age 25 as a Cpl you're grossing over $55K per year - before allowances, and ignoring the benefits package.  As of 01 April 2013, every Reg F Major will gross over $100K before allowances, ignoring benefits.  ANd, of course, on deployment there are additional allowances and tax relief.

Today's CF members are very well compensated.

 

[eurowing]

I haven't really thought about this a lot (maybe I should start...) but in my case, with my previous service, I retire at 51 with 28.5 years pension (and "25" years service.)  Now, who would hire a 51-year old  ???

Have you looked at the guys maintaining your airplane?? 

 

[maniac]

I never said that the pension was inadequate,  I responded to the original post about the assumption of retirement is presumed what we receive is the same as politicians.  If you tell a civy you have retired from the military,  they presume you will not be working.

If you make a point about private sector comparisons, then you should quantify your response with your life choices as you knew that going in as I did going into military.

For those comments about "if you don;t like it,  get out"  I already am out indexed at 54% and double dipping working for DND.  I guess that puts me in the working after retirement category.

 

[chrisf]

I haven't really thought about this a lot (maybe I should start...) but in my case, with my previous service, I retire at 51 with 28.5 years pension (and "25" years service.)  Now, who would hire a 51-year old  ???

There's a booming market for mature individuals, with work experience, who are interested in working.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

There's a booming market for mature individuals, with work experience, who are interested in working.

Personally, I have been eye balling that machine that mixes paint at Canadian Tire!

Back to the original question. I know when I joined in 1982 at 19 years of age, all I could think about was retiring at age 39. At that age, that is what runs through your mind. What was not mentioned was the inevitable mortgage, kids in uni, ex-spouse, etc. I agree with most, the package is good but unless you have a plan from day 1 (and I defy anyone to say they did...and kept with it), you may well find yourself seeking work after retirement. Most people I know work for a different reason. One thing about working in the organization-you are always training toward the your bosses position and in fact many trades could be considered 'up or out' trades. Once you have worked this way for 25+ years, it is difficult to just sit around. As one recent retiree told me, you can only wash the car or do laundry or vacuum the house or sit in a hammock in the back yard so many times-Then it gets monotonous.
I recently realized how lucky we in the CF are. My older brother worked 32 years as a civil engineer in Barrie and his wife the same in a private medical lab. Neither workplace had employee pension plans but they were smart and started contributing into Retirement savings early on. Of course we all know what happenned to retirement savings in the last 5-6 years. They both had to keep working and then last spring he was diagnosed with cancer. He passed two weeks ago technically still on the payroll and next Monday, my sister in law will have to return to work. Some retirement that turned out to be.
Is our plan the best?-No, Can it be utilized and augmented with personal savings to enhance the retirement years?-it sure can. Like anything else, you just need to be smart about it.
I now work because I enjoy what I do and not because of financial requirements. The fact that I am padding my CFSA each day that passes is a bonus.