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Perception of a quitter

FortYorkRifleman

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Hey everyone,

My story is that back in 2003 I enrolled into the Canadian Forces Primary Reserve, completed only two weeks of BMQ and then VR'ed with a 4c release. Fast forward to 2012 and I am going through the process of re-enrolling. All that needs to happen is my medical clearence from Borden and then my file can be downloaded to my regiment. My questions to you all is what effect can my previous decision to leave the Forces have when, four years from now, I apply to become a Corporal? Can my previous record come back to haunt me when I want to go for specialty training?
 

exabedtech

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Apply to be a corporal???  Have they ditched the whole training/experience/suitability thing since I retired? 
 

exabedtech

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You can apply to become a recruit and with some effort, you can make it to Private.  With greater effort and a couple of years experience you may make it to Corporal.
Yes, a 4c release does look bad.  You need to discuss this with your recruiter to get a current and accurate opinion on that. 
Certainly they would ask what your reasons were for quitting and why you think you wouldn't do the same thing again this time. 

From my experience (21 years reg force), a soldier who is known for quitting ranks only marginally ahead of a soldier known for stealing.  You may have a uphill battle fighting that image, so you'd better have something to show people that demonstrates something of a backbone.  May also want to research rank structure a bit.
 

FortYorkRifleman

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I'm aware of the process; Pte. Recruit, then Pte. Basic then Pte. Trained.  You may have missed when I wrote four years down the road
 

Chang

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I think he means your choice of words. You don't "apply" to become a corporal, you are selected and promoted to corporal.
 

QORvanweert

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exabedtech said:
Yes, a 4c release does look bad.  You need to discuss this with your recruiter to get a current and accurate opinion on that. 

From my experience (21 years reg force), a soldier who is known for quitting ranks only marginally ahead of a soldier known for stealing.  You may have a uphill battle fighting that image, so you'd better have something to show people that demonstrates something of a backbone.  May also want to research rank structure a bit.

It is interesting that you say that because I have been under the impression that a 4c release poses no problems if you decide to re-enlist. I personally completed my reserve BMQ before 4c'ing and plan on enlisting this fall under the NCM-SEP program now that I have finished school. What release category is used for so called 'non-quitters'?
 

exabedtech

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I said:
It is interesting that you say that because I have been under the impression that a 4c release poses no problems if you decide to re-enlist. I personally completed my reserve BMQ before 4c'ing and plan on enlisting this fall under the NCM-SEP program now that I have finished school. What release category is used for so called 'non-quitters'?

Maybe it doesn't pose a problem.  More a question for a recruiter, but when I was RSS with a militia unit, it seemed we some who were very dedicated and some who were there for a good time and absent when the time wasn't expected to be as fun.  If it were my call, which it never was, i'd pick and choose which ones i'd invest training dollars in.  I don't think that's at all unreasonable.
As a business owner now, I get the same thing.  Number one thing I look for on resumes is how long did this person stay with each job and why did they leave. 

I'm not in recruiting, so my opinion is simply that.
 

Redeye

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There's no reason a voluntary release should look bad - you might get asked why you released early, but it shouldn't be of any real concern. 4C is the normal category under which Reserve Force members leave, IIRC.
 

FortYorkRifleman

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I said:
It is interesting that you say that because I have been under the impression that a 4c release poses no problems if you decide to re-enlist. I personally completed my reserve BMQ before 4c'ing and plan on enlisting this fall under the NCM-SEP program now that I have finished school. What release category is used for so called 'non-quitters'?


A 4c release is not a roadblock, otherwise we would be submitting waivers to the Chief of Defense Staff. Having spoken to people ranging from Corporals to Lieutenants, they said it shouldn't be a problem to enroll. My process started on April 27th 2012 and now just need a Medical Clearence from Borden. However, many of the people I spoke to said they don't know how my VR from 2004 will factor into decisions made by the Regiment. I know the people I spoke to are all Reg Force, but figured the policies are the same regardless. When I went in for my Interview, I explained that I joined at 16, not appreciating at that point in my life what I got myself into; it seemed like fun to blow shit up and use guns but the inspections, constant yelling, and doing the same things over and over again got to me. I explained to the Lieutenant that I've matured, and want the chance to do it right this time. I, Citizen I don't think you'll have a problem. Just be honest with why you want in again.
 

Blackadder1916

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FortYorkRifleman said:
Hey everyone,

My story is that back in 2003 I enrolled into the Canadian Forces Primary Reserve, completed only two weeks of BMQ and then VR'ed with a 4c release. Fast forward to 2012 and I am going through the process of re-enrolling. All that needs to happen is my medical clearence from Borden and then my file can be downloaded to my regiment. My questions to you all is what effect can my previous decision to leave the Forces have when, four years from now, I apply to become a Corporal? Can my previous record come back to haunt me when I want to go for specialty training?

To clarify one point a bit more than the other posters.  One does not apply for promotion in the CF, not to Corporal, not to Sergeant, not to General.  Selection for promotion to increasingly higher ranks is done by people (or sometimes one person) who judge the suitability of individuals based on a number of factors; time in rank/service, completion of certain courses or attainment of specific qualifications, acquiring general or specific experience, maintaining a certain level of conduct and judged performance in comparison with peers.  There would also have to be an available position for that rank and occupation.  For promotion to Corporal (to be honest about it), the requirements to be met (especially in the Reserves) are very low.  Basically all it entails is meeting minimum time in service (IIRC, 2 years in the Reserves) and completion of some basic courses.  Just about any warm body who regularly shows up for parade nights and weekend training, is trade qualified, does what he is told and doesn’t get caught in sexual congress with the regimental mascot will usually be promoted Corporal.  (Depending on the age of the soldier and satisfaction of the mascot that point could be waived.)

Will your brief (blink and you miss it) former period of service be held against you in your rise to the dizzying heights of Corporal?  Unlikely.  While there is (or should be) institutional memory in the CF (and in specific units), some things don't "really" matter.  This is one of them.  The important thing is that you "don't shit the bed" this time around.

Will the regiment that you wish to join take it into account when making a decision about allowing you into their ranks?  Possibly.  But again, I think it unlikely that it becomes a barrier to your enrolment.  You made the point that (8-9 years ago) you were young and unprepared (mentally and physically?) to accept the commitment that is inherent in military service.  Military leaders are not stupid, we they know that a child youth (and face it, that’s what you were back then) does not conduct himself in the same manner as an adult.  Hopefully, you now conduct yourself as an adult and will be able to show that through the things you have done in the intervening years.
 

Pusser

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One of the Navy's odd little quirks is that you DO request promotion to Able and Leading Seaman (i.e. fill out a request form and go from there).  What happens if you don't put in the request form?  Somebody else (usually your DO or DPO) does it on your behalf and you get promoted anyway...

A 4c release should not affect you.  I suppose it's possible that the recruiting process may raise the question as to why you got out the first time, but once they accept you back into the CF, it should never come up again.  You wouldn't be the first guy to do this.  Remember also that that two weeks you did all those years ago is also pensionable and counts toward you CD!
 

FortYorkRifleman

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Pusser said:
One of the Navy's odd little quirks is that you DO request promotion to Able and Leading Seaman (i.e. fill out a request form and go from there).  What happens if you don't put in the request form?  Somebody else (usually your DO or DPO) does it on your behalf and you get promoted anyway...

A 4c release should not affect you.  I suppose it's possible that the recruiting process may raise the question as to why you got out the first time, but once they accept you back into the CF, if should never come up again.  You wouldn't be the first guy to do this.  Remember also that that two weeks you did all those years ago is also pensionable and counts toward you CD!

From what I understand my file is now being looked at by the Medical Officer at CFB Borden. My medical file left CFRC Toronto on July 4th, so can anyone give me a guesstimate as to when I can expect a response?
 
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aesop081

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FortYorkRifleman said:
My medical file left CFRC Toronto on July 4th, so can anyone give me a guesstimate as to when I can expect a response?

Between tomorrow and 13 July 2017.

That is about as close as anyone can get.

No, no one can tell you how long it will take, estimated or otherwise.
 

FortYorkRifleman

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To update you I have been Merit Listed and my file will be downloaded to my regiment. Thanks everyone for all the answers
 
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