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Petition for State Funeral for last Great War Veteran (Trinity-Teflon sidetrack)

Trinity

Army.ca Veteran
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What if

1) the family doesn't agree to it
2) the individual doesn't agree to it

After working with vets in the past... I wonder how this would
go over at Sunnybrook.

I sort of agree on principle.. I like the sentiment.
However, I think the issue lies deeper than what it appears to be.


(Edited by Moderator to change title)
 
I agree with Trinty. I'm going to wait out until there is more info/and family consent that this is what they want
 
http://www.dominion.ca/petition/

From the document itself:

"We the undersigned feel enormous gratitude for the sacrifice made by all the Canadian Armed Forces through the ages in defence of this country and its values; acknowledge the very special nature of the sacrifice made by those who fought in the First World War in appalling conditions and with terrible loss of life; note that only three First World War veterans remain; and urge the Prime Minister that their sacrifice, and all of those they served with under arms from 1914-1918, be celebrated by offering a state funeral to the family of the last veteran of the First World War resident in Canada."

No one is going to go against a vets last wishes or the wishes of the vets surviving family, if you read the petition wording it clearly says that they be OFFERED a state funeral,... OFFERED not weather You like it or not!

 
So.... how do we know if all three won't say no?

Quite possibly the entire peition could be an exercise in futility
if the families/vet says no?

Seems like more work for a petition, sign, submit, debate, etc...
if no one might want it.  Faster to ask the families involved......
 
So.... how do we know if all three won't say no?

Quite possibly the entire peition could be an exercise in futility
if the families/vet says no?

Seems like more work for a petition, sign, submit, debate, etc...
if no one might want it.  Faster to ask the families involved......

One could have said the same thing about any endever,... I for one believe it's a worthy cause, you Trinity might find it waaaay too much work to click a link and go to the web sight and type in your name and click the sign petition button (because thats all they are asking YOU to do) but I don't think that is too much to ask.

Sign it, don't sign it,... do or don't do what you wish

Back in 1914 when they were asked to go over seas I wonder if any of them said, "seems like a lot of work,... we might not win,.... Quite possibly the entire war could be an exercise in futility etc, etc"
 
Trinity isn't saying it's had for him to sign it he's saying that all that work of making a petition, where a simple call/email to the family to see if they even want a Funeral, would be easier and the right thing to do
 
Teflon.. cool the attitude.  Just because I'm exploring the idea doesn't
mean you can get nasty. 

Have you worked in a veterans wing before?  NO?
I have at Sunnybrook.  And there are things going through
my head saying this can be both positive and negative about
this situation.

I look at things from the family's perspective many times because that's
the aspect I deal with.  I'm also trying to look at this from the veterans
perspective and see how this can positively and negatively affect them
which it will do both.

It's not just a simple matter of signing...  without researching any topic
or asking questions... you might as well put your signature on anything.

I've already received 2 pms on the matter of people who are feeling similarly.

Take a larger look at the situation and realize there may be other effects
to the situation.. which is what I am trying to do by exploring the topic.

And save the attitude for the parade square.
 
Infantry_

How do you know that they didn't?  The effort that was made by these people and the lay out and the manner this information is laid out would indicate to me that they are fairly intelligent people and just might of come up with the idea of talking with the families, and veterns organizations before going to the trouble.

Did they? I don't know but the petition is already made so lets not bother to worry about "all that work" as you put it because others have already done it.
 
True, But it doesn't say anywhere that they did talk to the family and the way that they say
Quote
"We the undersigned feel enormous gratitude for the sacrifice made by all the Canadian Armed Forces through the ages in defence of this country and its values; acknowledge the very special nature of the sacrifice made by those who fought in the First World War in appalling conditions and with terrible loss of life; note that only three First World War veterans remain; and urge the Prime Minister that their sacrifice, and all of those they served with under arms from 1914-1918, be celebrated by offering a state funeral to the family of the last veteran of the First World War resident in Canada."

and you said this before
Teflon said:
http://www.dominion.ca/petition/

From the document itself:

No one is going to go against a vets last wishes or the wishes of the vets surviving family, if you read the petition wording it clearly says that they be OFFERED a state funeral,... OFFERED not weather You like it or not!

which leads me to believe that they did not ask the family. But before we get this topic locked we can talk about this more in the PM

 
Trinity

Where is this attitude you speek of?

You talked of how much work it could be



So if you are all bent out of shape by my reply then don't read anything I post, I don't mean to offend you but I replied having no idea you would bruse that easily.

As I said before,... sign it, or don't sign it but don't go warning to cool my attitude when I havn't bothered to use any with you.
 
Teflon said:
, you Trinity might find it waaaay too much work to click a link and go to the web sight and type in your name and click the sign petition button (because thats all they are asking YOU to do)

Here?  I perceive this as attitude.
 
Trinity said:
Here?  I perceive this as attitude.

Once again wheres the attitude? (the extra A's in way?)

Do you truely bruise that easily?
 
Teflon said:
Once again wheres the attitude? (the extra A's in way?)

Do you truely bruise that easily?

OK.. so now you choose to insult me? 

How about you try to argue with fact.

How about you reply to the post where I actually talk about working with
the veterans and how there may be positive and negative consequences to this.

I guess that didn't matter to you because it was too easy to make personal attacks
on me to win your point?  How about you address my post that this may have
ramifications larger than simply just being a state funeral.

But what do I know.  I've only dealt with the fa miles of veterans and veterans
themselves as a chaplain.
 
Trinity

No I havn't worked at a veterans facility, and as to negative consequences of this petition I don't see any, I don't see how an OFFER of a state funeral could adversly effect a passed veteran or his family, if the honourable man has passed and requires a funeral then I don't see negative consequences to offering him and his family a state one.

Hows that?
 
A fairly narrow view of the situation.

A state funeral doesn't just involve the veteran or the immediate family.
It affects all families, all veterans, all Canadians.

You aren't considering any other point of view but your own. 
You haven't given any consideration to how this may
impact others who will then want one.  It may upset other veterans
for a number of any reasons.

To some it may put more significance on one death but not another.  What
makes one man more important that another... how many more days he lived?

Maybe the family doesn't need to be reminded of the pain.  Maybe this
will cause more pain in other families who feel their father/mother deserved
the same.  Maybe this will stir up problems of the forces vs merchant marines
who didn't get any recognition.

Others might see this as some political play to promote the war in Afghanistan
and speak out against it. 

Others might see it as a glorification of war (like this White poppy campaign)

These are a few things in my head... not all.  I'm bound to confidentiality on
many things and I cannot disclose some of my views on this.  But since I have
worked in these wards I can probably not every veteran will agree with this.

There is simply MORE to the situation than offering one person a funeral.
 
Teflon said:
Trinity

No I havn't worked at a veterans facility, and as to negative consequences of this petition I don't see any, I don't see how an OFFER of a state funeral could adversly effect a passed veteran or his family, if the honourable man has passed and requires a funeral then I don't see negative consequences to offering him and his family a state one.

Hows that?

I think the bolded parts speak for themselves.  Do I need to say more?  'Cause I can.  You just won't like it.

You can hammer away at Trinity all you want.  I am sure it impresses the girls to see you pick on the padre.  ::)

Let me ask you this though...why are you hammering?

I think...you are making this personal, and not objective, so it might be time to stop, drop and roll.





 
Well, it appears that my original post that called into question the creepy factor has evolved into something else. 

I questioned whether it was just a tad bit creepy to be discussing an impending state funeral (regardless of how it comes to be) of any one of three remaining WWI vets.  They may be 105 and 106 respectively but as of a few hours ago, they were all very much alive (and I would hope planning on remaining alive for a while longer).  I also questioned (and perhaps lit the spark of further inquiry) as to whether there was any indication that the vets themselves had agreed to this petition or even have indicated that they wish to have, if offered, a state funeral.  I've been reading the Dominion Institute's website for a while and I have not seen any indication that they have consulted with the families of these vets anywhere on their website.   

I also wondered out loud at why we as a country were not celebrating these last three vet's remarkable life spans in the here and now instead of looking to the future where they have all died.  How sad it is that we have already had them die and are speaking of how to bury them and give them honours they deserve instead of focusing on the glorious gift that they have lived this long and are still with us.  We still can all take a moment and say thank you to them person.  We can, and are blessed to be able to demonstrate to them our gratitude as a country - now - while they are alive.

I had the honour of knowing Paul Metivier who passed away last January at the lovely age of 104.  His son, Denis was so proud of his dad and that his dad at his advanced age could still hear, see and speak perfect English and French.  He didn't like it when reporters asked him about State funerals as he felt that he had a few more years left in him and was genuinely abhorred when people talked about his death. 

It was with that in mind that I raised my questions on whether they vets had been consulted.  I believe Trinity picked up whether the families would agree and if not, in his speculations, pondered the waste of time and energy to convince the Government to offer a State funeral if it were to be turned down (but he can speak to that himself). 

I can't imagine what i would feel like if an organization were petitioning on my behalf (but not really because the last vet is unknown right now) to the Government to offer my family a special funeral service when none had every been offered to my comrades except for the standard Military funeral.  I can't imagine what I would feel like if it became a quasi-competition between 3 very grand old men to see who could last the longest.  Or even how I would feel that the same people that are so willing to suggest a funeral have never even given me the time of day since health as stopped me from attending Remembrance Day services. 

I'd rather see a final country wide letter writing campaign to say thank you to the vets that remain or one hell of a huge birthday bash put on by the people of Canada for all three of them. To me, it is better to honour them while they are alive to see it than to continue to speak of their impending deaths. 
 
Teflon said:
Once again wheres the attitude? (the extra A's in way?)

Do you truely bruise that easily?

As the groovy man with the bad grill said "Now you're just being rude baby"....

That's the third time I quoted Austin Powers in the last few days; is it just me or are some people getting short with others really quickly?

potato

 
spud said:
As the groovy man with the bad grill said "Now you're just being rude baby"....

That's the third time I quoted Austin Powers in the last few days; is it just me or are some people getting short with others really quickly?

But the really funny thing is.. two of the times you've said it... it was in response to what someone said to me.  ::)
 
Trinity said:
But the really funny thing is.. two of the times you've said it... it was in response to what someone said to me.  ::)

Ha ha, it's your confrontational nature Trinity  ;) 

potato
 
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