Petition for State Funeral for last Great War Veteran (Trinity-Teflon sidetrack)

[Teflon]

This whole thing started with my post in reply to Trinity and Infantry:

No one is going to go against a vets last wishes or the wishes of the vets surviving family, if you read the petition wording it clearly says that they be OFFERED a state funeral,... OFFERED not weather You like it or not!

The capilization used to stress that it was to offer not force a state funeral I also included the wording of the petition to show this

Trinity replied:

So.... how do we know if all three won't say no?Quite possibly the entire peition could be an exercise in futilityif the families/vet says no?Seems like more work for a petition, sign, submit, debate, etc...if no one might want it.  Faster to ask the families involved......

Too which I replied:

One could have said the same thing about any endever,... I for one believe it's a worthy cause, you Trinity might find it waaaay too much work to click a link and go to the web sight and type in your name and click the sign petition button (because thats all they are asking YOU to do) but I don't think that is too much to ask.Sign it, don't sign it,... do or don't do what you wishBack in 1914 when they were asked to go over seas I wonder if any of them said, "seems like a lot of work,... we might not win,.... Quite possibly the entire war could be an exercise in futility etc, etc"

Trinity then told me to cool the attitude (still wondering where all this caustic attitude is,... thinking it's all the aaaas in way) and asked and answered for me if I had worked with Vets (truth be told Trinity is right, beside having a beer and conversation with many at the Legion doesn't count as work to me so no I havn't)

Trinity then confirmed that the waaay to much work comment was what was considered attitude

I then asked Trinity if he bruised that easily?

to which Trinity found insulting and asked me to answer the question of and how there may be positive and negative consequences to this and accused me of not caring about consequences or the vets.

I guess that didn't matter to you because it was too easy to make personal attackson me to win your point?  How about you address my post that this may haveramifications larger than simply just being a state funeral.

So I replied to the question and chose to ignore the slap about not caring

TrinityNo I havn't worked at a veterans facility, and as to negative consequences of this petition I don't see any, I don't see how an OFFER of a state funeral could adversly effect a passed veteran or his family, if the honourable man has passed and requires a funeral then I don't see negative consequences to offering him and his family a state one.Hows that?

If a family of a vet or the vet himself does not wish this then it doesn't have to be accepted, or if a family would find the attention of a state funeral too painfull or the distence to the resting place too far or not near their home they can decline the offer.  I don't see how anyone would be offended or hurt by the offer of a rightly deserved honour, I can see why one might decline it but I don't see the negative consequences of it being offered.

I don't see this how this opinion is any less valid because my contact with vets and their family is not in a proffesional manner but a social one.

(Thank You to the Mod who moved this to a different thread so as not to tie up the other one from it's original intent)

 

[Trinity]

Teflon

I don't hate you, I'm not out to get you, I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid.

People's opinions, right, wrong or indifferent are their opinions.

Your point is you don't see how offering a state funeral or even the prospect to TRY to offer
a state funeral could have detrimental affects.

My point is you need to recognize there is a larger element that doesn't
just involve the immediate family of the last person (and that person himself). I
have no intent of rehashing any points given as examples. 

These negative affects may be very well worth still having a funeral as such, however
it is something definitely to take into consideration. 

In truth... you may have to just take my word for it.  If I start talking about how to
do advance to contact in the sandbox... I should probably things like that to people
such as yourselves.  When it comes to families, emotions, funerals, death/dying/bereavement etc...
I have an advantage to see how this may not be an easy proposal.  Even just reading some of
the comments on the petition show a varying degree of reasons why and some interesting
opinions to say the least.

I'm not trying to force your hand on the topic.  The personal side of me thinks it would be
a great idea but the professional side of me had my spidey senses tingle over the idea.  I'm
trying to offer your a broader look onto the topic but by no means do you have to accept it
or even like it...  I'm not trying to make you look like a fool or force you into a corner which I
think may have happened by a small pile on by others.  Thus forcing you to possibly dig
deeper into an argumentwhich IMO is a difficult one to defend.

So really... you can decide  No there is no negative affects as a result of offering this or
yes, there may be possible affects in areas related to and not related to the families and veterans.

Your opinion is your opinion.  But after a few posts of back and forth either one or both
individuals have movement and see eachothers points or they don't.  In this case... neither
of us is moving and to continue on with this fruitless and tiring.

 

[Teflon]

Trinity

Then tell me what the possible negatives might be, I also didn't intend to insult or belittle you, but I do tend to be an aggressive and sometimes sarcastic person when dealing with fellow military members. Most do not take offense to the way I say things but that may be because they know me. The bruise that easily comment was because I really didn't think one would be insulted, offended or confuse it for an attempt at "attitude", it's an expression I use often.  I don't see the negatives in this but do see the possibilitiy that they might decide to decline it so with your past work as opposed to my past social only interaction please tell me what you feel might be some of the negative effects of this.  I have changed my opinion before on a topic but only through gaining information from others or finding it myself.

I truely hope that this little frackas is behind us and we both can get back to gaining and providing productively to this site and do apoligize for any offense you may have taken because offense is not/ was not my intent.

Teflon

 

[KevinB]

IMHO - its ignorant not to OFFER them the honour.
Of course I have learned and continue to learn, that a lot of people here dont understand honour.

 

[Trinity]

I truely hope that this little frackas is behind us and we both can get back to gaining and providing productively to this site and do apoligize for any offense you may have taken because offense is not/ was not my intent.

No worries.. I've posted a good chunk of ideas.  I'll PM you with what
I don't want to say openly. 

I watched you get backed into a corner and realized that this was going to get stupid
hence my last post and your last post.  Obviously we're two normal people but the internet
is such a difficult medium to communicate through one always must take precautions to
not be misconstrued or taken advantage of.

 

[spud]

Obviously we're two normal people but the internet

What the??  A PPCLI Sgt. and a Padre.....normal people........hmmmmm ???....Who would have thought?

.......just kidding fellas, good show.

potato

p.s. No Sgt's or Padres were hurt in the production of this posting

 

[Teflon]

Trinity

no Problem, corners never bother me, even if my backs in one but yes it was getting stupid and the net is a difficult medium to express many things, intensity of words being one of them

I await the above mentioned PM, I was considering asking you to continue this in PM so as not to dirty up the original thread but the Mods beat me to it and moved while I slept.

Till then,....

cheers

 

[niner domestic]

Griffiths said he doesn't know if the veterans are religious men and hasn't contacted the families about the idea of a state funeral.

But he said every detail would ultimately be up to the families if a state funeral was offered.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061105/state_funeral_061105/20061105?hub=Canada

Nice gesture, but I'd be much happier if the Institute had contacted the men or their families first.

I just wrote out three letters to these men, and said thank you to them and promised to remember their comrades as long as I live.  

 

[Teflon]

What the??  A PPCLI Sgt. and a Padre.....normal people........hmmmmm ???....Who would have thought?

.......just kidding fellas, good show.

potato

p.s. No Sgt's or Padres were hurt in the production of this posting

Well I did get hit in the head by a white board marker but that was by a co-worker in an un-related incident! (almost lost an eye!!! )

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest, shared with the usual disclaimer....

First World War veterans don't want state funeral
CBC Online, 2 Jan 07
Article Link

The Canadian government has agreed to hold a state funeral for the last First World War veteran to die, but none of the three veterans still living wants a state funeral.  The niece of one veteran, Lloyd Clemett, said her uncle would rather have a simple memorial service.  "He himself feels there should not be attention given to the last person, but the attention should be given to them all," said niece Merle Kaczanowski, who is Clemett's guardian.  Her uncle, who is in a Toronto hospital, turned 107 last month.  The other two remaining veterans, Percy Wilson and John Babcock, are over the age of 100 as well. Both have indicated that, for now at least, they are not interested in a state funeral.  Veterans Affairs officials said they're aware the three veterans don't want state funerals and they're looking into other options. They would not say what those options are ....