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Phoenix Pay System - Shit's Horrible

Colin Parkinson

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The union could act by take limited strike action, taking out key employees so the various choke points form. In a perfect word, withdraw IT and Admin support for the Executives and up. they can enter their own pay and travel.
 

BeyondTheNow

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Curious: Does anyone know what program other gov employees (the Senate) are using to administer pay, since they had the lovely alternative of opting out of Phoenix due to all the issues the program was having/creating? Did they simply return to the former one? Why can't the same pay system be used across the board, and why weren't other federal employees given the same option. (That last part was rhetorical...)
 

dapaterson

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I seem to recall seeing that the Senate dropped their plan to leave Phoenix; my guess is they hired additional compensation staff (since they are not on the "Miramichi - your call is important to us" support plan).


The good news is that the CAF did not move to Phoenix, despite some studies and attempts and gentle persuasion several years ago.
 

BeyondTheNow

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dapaterson said:
I seem to recall seeing that the Senate dropped their plan to leave Phoenix; my guess is they hired additional compensation staff (since they are not on the "Miramichi - your call is important to us" support plan).


The good news is that the CAF did not move to Phoenix, despite some studies and attempts and gentle persuasion several years ago.

Ah okay. I hadn't heard/seen anything further regarding the switch from Phoenix, so assumed it went ahead as broadcasted. But yes, it must be nice to be above the standard service levels us average, middle-class folk are accustomed to.

We've talked about the issues a lot around the office, as one of our civvy employees is a union head. We've thanked our lucky stars quite a few times...
 

daftandbarmy

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Colin P said:
The union could act by take limited strike action, taking out key employees so the various choke points form. In a perfect word, withdraw IT and Admin support for the Executives and up. they can enter their own pay and travel.

Oh.... you're good  :nod:
 

Good2Golf

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Global Affairs has a different system for its foreign staff
 

OceanBonfire

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Phoenix replacement chosen for testing

Germany's SAP chosen from short list to test replacement for troubled pay system


A German software company has been chosen to test out its replacement for the Phoenix pay system.

The Treasury Board of Canada announced Friday SAP beat out other shortlisters Ceridian and Workday after several months of evaluation.

"Today's announcement is an important milestone toward building an efficient next generation solution that is better aligned with the complexity of the federal government's HR and pay structure," said digital government minister Joyce Murray in a news release.

"I am focused on moving this forward while taking the time to get it right."

The Phoenix pay system by IBM has caused tens of thousands of federal public servants to be improperly paid since it launched just over four years ago.

The government announced plans to replace it in 2018.

"Our members have been called on to support building a new solution that serves their needs, and I am pleased to see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel," said Debi Daviau, president of federal public servant union PIPSC, in the release.

Neither the government nor SAP explained how the software differs from Phoenix nor how long the test may take.

Public Services and Procurement Canada is leading the government's efforts to stabilize Phoenix.

As of its last update Jan. 22, the government said nearly half of federal public servants had some kind of pay issue and it was working on nearly 200,000 issues beyond what it considered normal.

Some employees have more than one issue.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-system-replacement-sap-1.5488435

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/feds-chose-replacement-for-phoenix-pay-system-1.4842066
 

dapaterson

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"We're taking all your favourite parts of DRMIS and adding them to the pay system."
 

daftandbarmy

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dapaterson said:
"We're taking all your favourite parts of DRMIS and adding them to the pay system."

“The first rule of any technology used in a business is that automation applied to an efficient operation will magnify the efficiency. The second is that automation applied to an inefficient operation will magnify the inefficiency.”  Bill Gates

https://cmc-canada.ca/blog/Our%20Blog/how-to-lead-great-big-it-projects-4-tips-for-project-champions
 

Nfld Sapper

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Sounds sort of like: "First rule of assassination. Kill the assassin."
 

BeyondTheNow

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Apparently the union is still in talks to also make the payment tax-free. Not a cure-all, but it’s something.

Union says feds agree to $2,500 payout for workers affected by Phoenix pay system

OTTAWA -- The Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) says it has reached a deal with the federal government to compensate 140,000 public service workers over Phoenix pay system related damages. All eligible members of the largest federal public service union who have been directly or indirectly impacted by the problem-plagued federal payroll system, are set to receive a $2,500 one-time payment.

The compensation includes money for the late implementation of collective agreements over the years when the government was trying to get the program under control. The payments are broken down by year, with $1,000 for fiscal year 2016-17 and $500 for each of the three years since.
The union says all members paid through the system are eligible to claim each designated amount for each year in which they were employed, including former federal workers or their estates.
The deal was reached on July 9. In a statement, Treasury Board President Jean-Yves Duclos said he is “pleased,” with the “tentative agreement.”
“All employees represented by PSAC will receive compensation for the toll that the Phoenix pay system has had on their lives. This is a testament to our commitment to reaching fair and equitable agreements, mindful of today’s economic and fiscal context,” Duclos said. 
Over the course of the implementation of the now years-old payroll system, thousands of employees experienced being underpaid, overpaid, or not paid at all as the government tried to triage what quickly became a massive backlog in cases of pay issues that left many workers in financial hardship for months.

The agreement also includes changes to the current claims process for out-of-pocket expenses and other financial losses related to the faulty payroll program, as well as additional compensation for “severe impacts and other demonstrable cases.”
These severe cases included workers who accumulated outstanding debts due to missing payments, or who lost their cars, homes, or other major financial assets as a result of not being paid properly.
“This new agreement is a substantial improvement from the one negotiated by other federal bargaining agents,” said PSAC in a statement. Other federal unions have already agreed to offering impacted members an additional five days of paid sick leave, but PSAC calls that offering “meagre,” and not equitable as it “rewarded the highest earners and punished those with lower wages when cashed out.”
A YEARS-LONG HEADACHE
The Phoenix system, initiated by the previous Conservative government in 2009, was meant to streamline the payroll of public servants and save more than $70-million annually. But after problems with the system emerged, the previous public services and procurement minister told CTV News back in 2017 that it was possible the cost to get things under control could hit $1 billion.
After it went live in April 2016, the government had to hire more staff and set up satellite pay centres in Gatineau, Montreal, Winnipeg, and Shawinigan, Que., to try to chip away at the pile of problem cases.
As of June 24, according to the public service pay centre dashboard that’s been reporting the status of resolving cases, there were still 125,000 financial transactions to be made beyond the normal workload, and the percentage of cases being processed within the service standards was at 71 per cent, with a target of 95 per cent.

The initial promise from the department was to have the backlog of problematic pay cases resolved by the end of October 2016.
 

Remius

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To be honest I was ok with the 5 days one time leave allotment but this is better as it is more fair and everyone gets the same thing.

Plus 6.35 % over the last three years is more than fair given the climate. Bodes well for the CAF that should see something comparable.

I haven’t seen the fine print in some of the benefits like mat/pat leave but it looks good.



 

BeyondTheNow

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Remius said:
To be honest I was ok with the 5 days one time leave allotment but this is better as it is more fair and everyone gets the same thing.

Plus 6.35 % over the last three years is more than fair given the climate. Bodes well for the CAF that should see something comparable.

I haven’t seen the fine print in some of the benefits like mat/pat leave but it looks good.

Yes. Will be interesting to see if the tax-free element on that payment comes through also. The article didn’t mention it, but I understand they’re still fighting for that too.
 

FJAG

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Remius said:
To be honest I was ok with the 5 days one time leave allotment but this is better as it is more fair and everyone gets the same thing.

Plus 6.35 % over the last three years is more than fair given the climate. Bodes well for the CAF that should see something comparable.

I haven’t seen the fine print in some of the benefits like mat/pat leave but it looks good.

Its all fine and fair unless you are the public paying for the original Phoenix boondoggle in the first place, then paying for the massive rebuilding of the pay system and now paying for compensation.

Why haven't dozens of politicians and bureaucrats been fired and several tech firms been sued? Head should have rolled (or better yet mounted on spikes on Parliament Hill).

:clubinhand:

 

Remius

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Heads rolled?  The head of this whole mess got an award from the GG for her work.

Personally someone should be in jail for this.

Unfortunately this has had a major impact on PS workers and their mental health.  Lives have been ruined opportunities lost and some are still feeling the effects.  I wasn’t hit hard, but my wife was out 30,000 dollars.  Some people lost their savings.

So yes, as much as it sucks, compensation for this mess was required.
 

FJAG

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Remius said:
Heads rolled?  The head of this whole mess got an award from the GG for her work.

Personally someone should be in jail for this.

Unfortunately this has had a major impact on PS workers and their mental health.  Lives have been ruined opportunities lost and some are still feeling the effects.  I wasn’t hit hard, but my wife was out 30,000 dollars.  Some people lost their savings.

So yes, as much as it sucks, compensation for this mess was required.

Not if the compensation is $2,500 across the board irrespective of if you lost $0.00 or $30,000. The compensation should be commensurate with the loss.

I know about the award and that's what makes me so furious about this whole thing. There simply doesn't seem to be accountability within the civil service (especially it's senior management). This is one of the reasons why I rave on and on ad nauseum about letting half of the senior leadership (civilian and military) in Ottawa go; they produce little of value for the valuable defence dollars they gobble up enforcing half-baked regulations and procedures they dreamed up in the first place.

:clubinhand:
 

BeyondTheNow

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FJAG said:
Not if the compensation is $2,500 across the board irrespective of if you lost $0.00 or $30,000. The compensation should be commensurate with the loss.

I know about the award and that's what makes me so furious about this whole thing. There simply doesn't seem to be accountability within the civil service (especially it's senior management). This is one of the reasons why I rave on and on ad nauseum about letting half of the senior leadership (civilian and military) in Ottawa go; they produce little of value for the valuable defence dollars they gobble up enforcing half-baked regulations and procedures they dreamed up in the first place.

:clubinhand:

If they had all the figures in line, then that makes perfect sense. Problem is, this far into the mess, they have yet to accurately identify the exact figures of every single individual affected. This is basically a ‘we’ve given up to a degree, but here’s something to make everyone slightly less ticked’ gesture.
 

dapaterson

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By law, I was to have been paid my retro pay within 90 days of ratification of the last agreement by both parties.

They finally sorted it out in February of this year, about 2 1/4 years late.

There should be PS executives in jail over this, not "here's someone else's money to buy your silence".
 

PuckChaser

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dapaterson said:
There should be PS executives in jail over this, not "here's someone else's money to buy your silence".

Incompetence? Absolutely. People should be fired? 100% agree. Criminal conduct? Over the top hyperbole. I strongly doubt any PS Execs are pocketing money or that there was any criminal conduct here. Just people who were promoted at least 3 levels above their competency.
 

dapaterson

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The senior execs violated the PSLRA by failing to implement IAW the collective agreement.

Lawbreakers on a scale such as that should face penal sanction.

 
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