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Physical Fitness for Skinny Guys

  • Thread starter Thread starter dnuttall
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dnuttall

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Hey all, got a quick question for everyone. I've read posts about people losing weight, and getting in to shape, which is great... if you're a big or average sized guy. I, however, am pretty damn skinny... which has some advantages, and quite a few disadvantges.

In my favour, I'm a natural runner and can run long distances pretty easily. However, my upper body strength really doesn't compare to bigger guys. And here's my dilemna... the cardiovascular training I do (running, biking, etc.) pretty well cancels out any anaerobic excercies i've been doing.

Any suggestions for improving upper body strength while maintaining a high level of cardio?

Much obliged to all who answer  ;D

Dave
 
I weighed 145 lbs (I'm 5'9") when I got in 10 years ago..  I could run like a gazelle.  Now, I'm about 195, I still run.. just not as fast..  I lift 5 times a week.

Three easy steps:

1.  Eat more
2.  Reduce amount of aerobic exercise (but don't stop it completely)
3.  Start lifting weights

and the 4th step.. if you play baseball

4.  Take anabolic steroids.

(not that I did, of course)
 
that sounds straight forward enough. i've just started to turn eating into a full time job, that should help a lot.

lol i'll leave the steroids to the pros... jose canseco was always my favourite


thanks for the advice.  8)
 
I am a Personal Trainer for GoodLife Fitness Clubs...until April 21st anyway...then I go to my BMQ on the 26th.
Anyway...I might be able to help you out with your question as I have trained many people both wanting to gain and lose weight. Some quick tips are to make sure you are not only eating alot of calories but that you are eating the "right" foods. Load up on protien and if you want to gain weight, same with carbs. As for weight training, make sure that you are using a heavy enough weight and are doing about 6 to 10 reps maximum. You should be lifting the weight until muscle failure...meaning that you cannot do one more repetition no matter how hard you push. You should "feel the burn". If you can do 10 repetitions (which is a little high) then increase your weight until you are back down to 6 reps. Also, you should be doing 3 sets..one as a warm-up weight and then increase to a medium weight and then at your max.
If you need any additional advice, feel free to PM me.

Bojangles
 
thats great advice, bojangles..  like what I said, but much more detail.. and from someone who is qualified to give it..

That will be my second career after i'm done my 20..

Thats the method I used.. and it worked for me!!

 
Chags,

Personal Training is an awesome job and has some of the greatest rewards you can get from a career. The sad part of it is that alot of people simply don't invest money into themselves and it's hard to make a living at it. People will somehow always find money to fix their vehicles when they break down no matter what the cost, but when it comes to thier own bodies breaking down...they don't see the need to invest in it. :-\...until it's too late unfortunately and they are laying in a hospital bed saying "man I wish I would have taken better care of myself".

Bojangles
 
bojangles said:
As for weight training, make sure that you are using a heavy enough weight and are doing about 6 to 10 reps maximum. You should be lifting the weight until muscle failure...meaning that you cannot do one more repetition no matter how hard you push. You should "feel the burn". If you can do 10 repetitions (which is a little high) then increase your weight until you are back down to 6 reps. Also, you should be doing 3 sets..one as a warm-up weight and then increase to a medium weight and then at your max.

Wow, really? I had always been told I should be maxing out at around 10-15 reps for mass building. Good to know...looks like my bench is in need of a few more pounds...

Any specific foods you find to be excellent protein and carb sources? Id like to avoid protein supplements and cant afford steak every night...  :(
 
Doing 10 to 15 reps is fine depending on the results you want to achieve. I would normally advise someone to do 10 to 15 reps if they simply want to define/tone up thier muscles. This also means you are strength training but you won't "bulk up" the way you would if you lowered your reps and increased your weight. Having a spotter or a buddy to work with you helps to pump out those last few reps where we normally give up. Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.
If you don't like the shakes or protien bars. Eat natural foods like egg whites, lots of nuts (some are high in fat too but it's a good fat so don't be too concerned, afterall you are wanting to gain weight), meat.

Bojangels
 
bojangles said:
Doing 10 to 15 reps is fine depending on the results you want to achieve. I would normally advise someone to do 10 to 15 reps if they simply want to define/tone up thier muscles. This also means you are strength training but you won't "bulk up" the way you would if you lowered your reps and increased your weight. Having a spotter or a buddy to work with you helps to pump out those last few reps where we normally give up. Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.
If you don't like the shakes or protien bars. Eat natural foods like egg whites, lots of nuts (some are high in fat too but it's a good fat so don't be too concerned, afterall you are wanting to gain weight), meat.

Bojangels

what protein shake would u recommend? and how long does it take to see results?
 
Bojangles : EXCELLENT advices!! I've been lifting for a year now.. I was 125 lbs (I'm 5,8') I'm now 160 lbs...  The way to train that Bojangles explained (muscle failure) is the way I used and the one that i'm still using. It works the best.

For my part, I would recommend GOOD QUALITY proteins, not the cheap ones you buy at Wal-Mart (they can contain burned protein particles and still can be called "proteins") I use Champion Nutrition and it's been very good so far.Plus, you don't need a mixer to do your shake, that's what indicates the good quality of the protein powder. Great tasting too, but don't try weird flavours like strawberry or banana... stay with chocolate! I also suggest you mix your protein powder with 3.25% m.f. milk (as you want to gain mass). This adds proteins and calories to the shake, and it' s WAY better tasting this way, trust me!

Now, if you're really skinny and want to get mass, (just like I was) try using Mass or Weight gainers. I used a couple of buckets (yes, the powder is in real buckets with a metal handle!!) of Mammoth 2500 Mass gainer. Worked fine! You get like 1400 calories for 1 shake! Plus, of course, 60 grams of protein. Remember to mix it with a mixer and with milk, too.

The general rule to gain muscle mass is 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Follow this, EAT EAT EAT and EAT MORE! Then, you should be able to pack solid muscle within reasonable time! Feel free to PM me if you got questions about it, but I think Bojangles explained it very weel already!

Oooh. before I forget! There are SPECIFIC times to drink a shake!  Follow this : within the next hour following your training, drink a shake. (the muscles will start rebuilding after the effort right after the end of your workout. That's when they need the most protein!) Also, the day after, drink another one that you'll split between breakfast and afternoon lunch. A good indicator of the way your workout went is sore muscles. You SHOULD feel sore muscles  EVERY day following a workout. If not, less results are to expect.

By the way, feel free to PM if you got any question!

Cheers, and good luck!
 
Just a question about the sore muscles. I get it within the first few days of starting an exercise, and then it pretty much becomes a thing of the past. I work the muscle group until it simply decides "you're on your own" and gives up. Problem is, I only feel slightly tired within the next 15 minutes..but am ready for another go as I no longer feel exhausted. I've done Preacher Curls to muscle failure in sets seperated by only a few minutes, and it seems like every time I come back...my muscles have forgotten that they even did anything prior. This normal?
 
Nitz, you're right on the mark with protien shakes/supplements. Find one that is of good quality and that you can handle the taste. Most poor quality ones taste chalky.

Shortbus,
Muscles are a little more complex than one may think. First off, your muscles have memory which is a good thing...it means that when you take a break from working out, your muscles will remember what they "used to do" and can usually get back to that state quickly. Without getting too technical, your muscles don't get sore after the first few times working them because the "muscle memory" takes effect and says "Oh yeah, I remember this now...It's not new to me", thus not sending your muscles into a shocked state when you work them. You SHOULD feel a burn when you are training but not necessarily feel sore the next day. You will know you had an excellent workout and worked your muscles to failure when you get the shakes after lifiting. You should actually feel trembling in the muscles you worked. Weight training is an ongoing science and I could go on and on with advice for you but it really doesn't have to be comlicated. One thing to make sure of is that you are not working the same muscles every day, switch muscle groups to give healing/repair time. Remember that when you lift weights, you are tearing down muscle fibres and it needs rest to repair itself, when it repairs itself, it gets bigger. Rest is just as important so don;t think if you work the same muslce every day you are doing it favors. I personallly like to do upper body mon, wed & fri and I do lower the other days. I also do cardio every day because I suck at it! :P
Hope I didn't bore you.

Bojangles
 
Very good Bojangles.

After re-reading my previous post, I saw that I made a little mistake : you shouldn't ALWAYS be sore the next day... my mistake!

In my case, all the time I train triceps and pecs, I get all those muscles sore, but when I train my back, biceps and shoulders I barely get a little pain the next day.

Anyways, just try to feel the muscle working, always keep control of your movement and exercise SLOWLY, like, do not throw the weight up and down.

Try to get at least a whole day to recover. My routine is : monday : pecs-biceps  tue: off  wedns : back, triceps  thu : off  friday : shoulders, legs
Plus you add some cardio every day, but that's about it for the weight training. Keep your reps between 6-10 and you should grow strong!

I think it has all been covered now! I'm sorry I write a lot, I love so much to explain about that ;)


Cheers!
 
bojangles said:
Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.

This is horrible advice. Training to failure always is a sure fire way to be injured and wind up over training. Personal trainer doenst mean anything- where did you get your certification?
 
Beadwindow,
I have my CanFit Pro certification, where did you get yours? Training to muscle failure does NOT mean injury. In fact, if you do not train until mucle failure then can I ask what are you trying to accomplish? By not training to faliure, you are not breaking down the muscle fibers which is a HEALTHY thing and you want to do this in order to grow the muscle. By simply lifting a light weight and not working the muscle to failure, you might as well sit at home and lift a beer bottle to your mouth.IMO.

Bojangles
 
BeadWindow said:
This is horrible advice. Training to failure always is a sure fire way to be injured and wind up over training. Personal trainer doenst mean anything- where did you get your certification?

I' m sorry, but Bojangles was right on this one. Professionnal bodybuilders use this technique when they are bulking up. I've been using this for a year now, and I took 35 pounds of mass. Failure doesn't mean that you get injured... how can you say that? What's your point?


Cheers!
 
We all know its a very good idea to listen to 103 year olds on the matter of fitness. All the PSP staff I have ever dealt with give the same advice as bojangles. I think they are a very reputable source of information.
 
"I have counseled the practice of going to failure as a means to ensure muscle growth stimulation. (Failure refers to performing a set until the point of being unable to complete one more rep, despite all effort you "fail" to complete the last rep.) But over the years much confusion has developed regarding the use of this principle. Having a clear understanding of the failure principle will save you wasted effort and prevent you from accepting what has become dogma as scientific fact.
Over the last thirty years a great deal has been written about going to failure during weightlifting exercises. Like nearly every other aspect of bodybuilding, the concept of failure is one that has fallen victim to misapplication, misunderstanding and improper logic. Used properly, failure can serve as a useful tool in guiding progress. However, there is no valid reason for its near mythic importance to some bodybuilders who believe that progress cannot be made without employing this principle. In point of fact, exercising to momentary muscular failure is not, and never has been, a requirement of stimulating muscle growth.
The fact is, outside of a gym, there is virtually no human activity that involves going to failure. For example, a person who makes his living by digging with a shovel would never dig to the point where he could not lift one more shovel of dirt. He would never swing a pick ax until he could no longer lift it to complete one more "repetition". And yet, people who perform such manual labor can develop tremendous muscularity. How is it that they can develop above average muscularity without ever, in their entire life, going to failure? Similarly, sprinters are distinguished by tremendous hamstring and quadriceps muscles compared to the nominal muscularity of a distance runner. This is because sprinting requires a great amount of muscular work in a unit of time. But who sprints to failure? Who crosses the finish line and cannot take one more step? Indeed, you might even find a weight lifter in your own gym who made great progress in his size and strength gains without ever exercising on a program that prescribed sets to failure. All of these people have the ability to stimulate new muscle growth without every going to "failure". So how can anyone characterize failure as an indispensable requirement of stimulating muscle growth? All the evidence - not just some evidence - but all evidence goes against that assertion.

The human body operates by complex mechanisms that are always taking averages into account. In a normal day your body is adjusted to accept "x" amount of sunshine, "y" amount of temperature variation, "z" amount of humidity, etc. for hundreds of different environmental and biological variables. For every variable the body makes complex calculations and adjustment to characteristics like our blood viscosity, hormone levels, degree of skin tanning and muscle growth. If, on average, you are exposed to the same amount of sunlight every day of the year, your skin will darken to the point where it has sufficient protection from that average level of sunlight, but no more. Similarly, if you lift weights on a regular basis with the same amount of intensity every workout your muscles will develop to a point where they can comfortably handle the intensity of lifting that they are, on average, subjected to, without unduly depleting its recovery resources.
In order to increase the thickness or viscosity of your blood it is not necessary to subject your body to the absolute coldest temperature that it can withstand before losing consciousness. Nor, if you want to increase the darkness of your tan, is it necessary to subject your skin to the most intense sunlight it can withstand up to the moment before blistering. Muscle growth stimulation operates on the same principle. Consequently it is not necessary to operate a muscle to its absolute limit of muscular failure in order to stimulate new muscle growth.
You may have seen a new product on the market that utilizes a wristwatch style device to use while sun bathing. It is designed to monitor and measure the intensity of sunlight that your skin is subjected to and compare that intensity to user-provided information like color of skin and the SPF of the sunscreen being used. The device calculates the safe interval of sun intensity and rings an alarm when limits have been reached. Bodybuilders would greatly benefit from the same style of device if it could be adapted to measure the intensity of muscular output. Leaving aside the technicalities of measuring the intensity of muscle groups, imagine if you could wear a wristwatch style device that monitored and measured your average muscular intensity throughout the day.
Suppose at the end of the day the device indicated your average muscular output was one hundred pounds per minute. Let's call that your baseline muscular intensity. If every day for the next six months you engaged in an amount of muscular activity that caused the device to register a one hundred pounds per minute average, you would not increase in your muscle mass because there would be no reason (no requirement) for your body to grow new muscle.
Now suppose that each day you engaged in an amount of muscular activity that caused the average intensity to rise by 5%. (i.e. 100, 105, 110, 116, 122, etc.) At the end of thirty days, if you were able to sustain such a steady increase, your wrist monitor would indicate 412 pounds per minute of average muscular intensity. You can see that in order to safely cope with 412 pounds per minute of muscular output your body would have to make itself substantially more muscular that it has to be to cope with one hundred pounds per minute of muscular output.
Using Power Factor principles, if you were to construct a month worth of bench press exercise routines you could begin by establishing baseline Power Factor and Power Index numbers that represent a measurement of the muscular intensity that you are capable of generating in that exercise. You could then engineer a number of workouts to perform over the next month ensuring that each had intensity 5% higher than the last. That progressive increase in muscular intensity would be all that is required to ensure steady increases in muscularity. It would not be necessary to go to failure, it would not be "necessary" to perform one set only, two sets only, three sets only, eight reps per set, twelve reps per set or any of the other so-called "requirements" for growth. It would also not be necessary to perform four different exercises in addition to the bench press, it would not be necessary to "periodize" your workouts by including several workouts at twenty to thirty percent below your baseline intensity, it would not be necessary to stop all aerobic exercise for a month. It would not be necessary to work out three days per week. It would only be necessary to increase the intensity of that exercise on a workout to workout basis.

While failure is a crude gauge, it can be used as an effective tool in finding your baseline of intensity. For example, if you are performing three sets of fifteen reps with 200 pounds and during your first set you perform fifteen, your second set you perform fifteen but on your third set (to failure) you perform twenty six reps it is an indication that your first two sets were at sub maximal intensity and that you should be using a heavier weight or performing more reps. The limitation here should be obvious. How much lower was your intensity compared to what it could be? What are the units of measurement? How high is high? How low is low? When you use Power Factor and Power Index numbers in place of these vagaries your training is imbued with a precision behooving a proper science. Furthermore, if you are seriously overtrained you will reach failure at a point lower than the progressive intensity that you require in order to stimulate new muscle growth. For example, suppose that you started with a baseline intensity of one hundred pounds per minute and a few sessions later your intensity is 160 pounds per minute in the same exercise. At this point you become overtrained and next time in the gym you go to "failure" at 140 pounds per minute of muscular intensity. There is no possible way that can stimulate new muscle growth despite going to failure. Why? Because going to failure is not a requisite of muscle growth stimulation. Progressive intensity is!
To exaggerate the point, consider what your strength is when you are recovering from a serious bout of flu or perhaps a stay in the hospital. You can return to the gym and take every set to failure but the intensity will be so low that it cannot stimulate new muscle growth. That's the reason why some people can train to failure on every exercise for month after month and never show any sign of progress while they are convinced they are going all out and delivering 100% of momentary muscular effort. It's irrelevant, since what matters is a tangible progression of overload intensity. Since the Power Factor and Index measurements exist there is no excuse for a rational person not to employ these more precise measurements of muscular intensity into his or her workouts. No reason except blinkered dogmatism and a blind adherence to tradition and "the way its always been done".

Advocates of training to failure, particularly those who adhere to the Arthur Jones model of only one set to failure, believe that the last rep is the most productive rep of the set. As the rational goes, the first reps takes very little of your effort, the second, third and forth reps take corresponding more effort until you reach that last rep which requires all the effort you can muster and yet can not be completed. This most difficult rep is considered by some to be the most productive rep in the set as it is the one that triggers muscle growth stimulation. However, as we have already discussed, it is the progressive increase in intensity that triggers muscle growth and since that increase can be reached without ever going to failure, the last rep (as it's described as being impossible to complete) can be entirely unnecessary. For example, if the required increase in intensity would have been reached at the sixth rep of that set then the sixth rep is the one that triggers growth. The reps beyond the sixth were not even necessary to perform. If you have a baseline intensity of one hundred pounds per minute and you have set a goal intensity of 110 pounds per minute then the moment you reach 110 pounds per minute of intensity you can stop the exercise even if you've only completed five and a half reps. The number of reps is irrelevant, failure is irrelevant, it is the amount of intensity generated that is the only relevant factor.
And how does a scientific mind measure intensity? With a mathematical Power Factor and Power Index. How does the unscientific mind measure intensity? By feel, by perceived effort, by burn, by pump, by soreness, by failure, by rep count, by set count, by vague, non-specific, irrelevant intangibles that are not indispensable conditions of growth stimulation.
In science we measure the intensity of light, not by squint factor, or headache potential but by Lumens and Candle Power. We measure the intensity of sound not by ear pain or stomach vibration but by Decibels - precisely defined measurements that can be compared mathematically and used to discover other properties of the science. Anyone who claims there is a "science" of bodybuilding but rejects an objective measure of muscular intensity is a poseur and a dogmatist."


This is written by a respected bodybuilding author. I can give you lots more. Bodybuilders may use failure once a week. Its dangerous. Ive bulked myself up to a solid 260. Last time I checked the"PSP" staff in most places are for the most were'nt the best physical specimens. Out dated dangerous ideas. Back to your horse and buggies.
 
The goal with the Training to Failure Principle is not to overtrain, rather to train to the limit and then stop. This means don't go to 110% of failure or even 100% of failure. Aim for 90-95% muscle failure, with STRICT FORM
-Travis Smith bodybuilding Author on applying the "Training to failure priciple"

Bojangles-

â Å“Rememeber train until "muscle failure"...you cannot do one more no matter how hard you push.â ?

Where is your advice on using proper form prostar?   The muscle failure principle isnt as easy as training until you cant â Å“do one moreâ ?. And giving that out as advice to people who don't know weight lifting is bad advice. There is a correct application and a dangerous application. You are not helping them by telling them to go until failure.


I watch the trainers in my gym, most of whom are round as well, give out poor form advice and bad advice everytime Im working out. So you took he Canfit course. Did you take the 22 or the 25 hour course? Ive got hundreds of hours under the iron.

Im not meaning to be inflammatory but I believe that the internet is full of dangerous fitness advice. If it was as easy as training to failure- every 16 year old kid who only does bench press would have a dolly parton sized rack on 'em. But we all know that they dont wind up growing.
 
Being a Competitive bodybuilder I just wanted to add my 2 cents here.  Proper form is far more important than muscle failure or doing low reps or high reps.  Each person is different on how their body reacts to workouts.  I used to do low reps heavy weights for leg training.  Those suckers just wouldn't grow.  My friend/trainer (a former Pro bodybuilder who is also in the Cdn military and has competed internationally to represent Canada many times) changed my routine so that for legs I do extremely high reps with lower weights and guess what?  They grew!  lol.  Now my workouts are probably alot different than most as I am trying to pack on much size as I can so I am on a 5 day split and do extreme amounts of sets.  Usually 30 sets per body part.  This is the old school of doing things but the most important thing is having proper form when doing them.  Now I never did take the Can Fit pro certification as many trainers at my Goodlife gym took it and after a week of doing the classes they are constantly asking me for advice so I figured what could it teach me that I already didn't know.  Not knocking the course but it doesn't mean that everything is set in stone because you were taught it.  It is disheartening when you do see some of the trainers who are certified up the ying yang yet fail to maintain in good shape and expect others to pay 60$ and up per hour to listen to them when they can't shape their own body with their knowledge.  I was going to pay for a trainer a long time ago but when that trainer kept telling me that because I am a woman that I shouldn't want to get big muscles and that I should want to just tone my body is when I walked away.  lol 
 
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