Physical Fitness for Skinny Guys

[DogOfWar]

The 16 yr old who only does bench is not huge for a number of reasons...the main one being that he/she is not fully developed yet. That is why weight training is not recommended while one is still in the growing phase...."Prostar!"

This what im refering too. You say they dont get big when they train to failure because "they arent fully developed yet". This isnt true because 16 year old kids who train properly get huge. The reason that the 16 year old bencher doesnt get huge is because they are not training properly. AND the kid who isnt getting huge is the one who applies the "muscle failure" principle incorrectly.   Show me an article that offers sound science regarding training to failure ALL THE TIME

HOw in the heck am I "wrong again" Beadwidow? I haven't seen one thread of evidence that anything I have said so far has been wrong. You are the one that is confused here. In the statement above you say that teen bodybuilders have awesome physiques   because they train and diet properly and then later you agree that it is not recommended at a young age because it causes the growth plates to fuse. Make up your mind. I simply implied that it is not RECOMMENDED to weight train before you are FULLY developed.

Bojangles

I think teens can weight train. I did and Im 6'3". Its didnt affect my growth. There was a question about growth plates so i answered it. I can assure you I am not confused.

I retract my Prostar comment LOL. I just like discussing this stuff.....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.

 

[DogOfWar]

The general rule to gain muscle mass is 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Follow this, EAT EAT EAT and EAT MORE! Then, you should be able to pack solid muscle within reasonable time! Feel free to PM me if you got questions about it, but I think Bojangles explained it very weel already!

Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,

 

[Canadian Sig]

.....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.

  Not much maybe about it.
Show your fellow "posters" some respect 

 

[BDG.CalgHighrs]

Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,

A problem I notice is the protein fixation. To be sure you need it and in sufficien quantity. (1.6g should be plentyfor all but the most dedicated lifters as after that you are likely just pissing it out). You need more than just protein though. Proper diet and suffcient quantity of food in general is also important. I am sure you know this, but not everyone who reads this topic will. When you are trying to get bigger you need the calories. Your body can only process so much protein. For a skinny guy trying to gain weight this will probably equate to about 4000+ calories a day where only 20% of the food intake is protein. For somone who is already 'bigger' it should be closer to 30%.

 

[DogOfWar]

.....maybe Im coming accross as   ajerk. But I simply must demand you show how your advice is sound. Im more than willing to read and learn.

   Not much maybe about it.
Show your fellow "posters" some respect    

bad advice. or advice without facts or studies does not deserve respect.

 

[DogOfWar]

A problem I notice is the protein fixation. To be sure you need it and in sufficien quantity. (1.6g should be plentyfor all but the most dedicated lifters as after that you are likely just pissing it out). You need more than just protein though. Proper diet and suffcient quantity of food in general is also important. I am sure you know this, but not everyone who reads this topic will. When you are trying to get bigger you need the calories. Your body can only process so much protein. For a skinny guy trying to gain weight this will probably equate to about 4000+ calories a day where only 20% of the food intake is protein. For somone who is already 'bigger' it should be closer to 30%.

true true.I Believe that we consume to much protein in the Body building.but I consume an over abundance to ensure I have enough.

 

[Canadian Sig]

bad advice. or advice without facts or studies does not deserve respect.

Well your fellow troops deserve it. "prostar" is not respectful. On this forum you don't always know who you are talking to and it is expected that respect will be given regardless of rank ect.

 

[DogOfWar]

Well your fellow troops deserve it. "prostar" is not respectful. On this forum you don't always know who you are talking to and it is expected that respect will be given regardless of rank ect.

I already retracted the prostar comment. SO go measure dicks elsewhere. In fact Bojangles is qualified to talk. Which is why Im taking her to task. I want to discuss and learn. SO I retracted. You add nothing to the conversation.

Back on topic please!

Bojangles- do you have a book I should read that you've read on the subject? Any recommends- Im open minded.

 

[bojangles]

I don't really beleive in recommending any specific book because as we all know, books are nothing more than opinions.The same as yours and mine may differ, so does one author to the next. Just because someone "a well known body builder" from your former post, may have written something does NOT mean that it is necessarily correct. It is simply his opinion. There are studies conducted all the time regarding fitness and the results of these tests are challanged every day. My educational studies in both College and University are in the fitness field. I took Recreation in College and Sports Psychology in University. I then took NCCP (National Coaching Certification Program) up to level 3, which means I am qualified to coach professional athletes. My specified sport is Boxing and I have been coaching since 1995 both amateur and pro athletes. Boxers face some very difficult challanges in the sport with "making weight" being one of the biggest. My job is to get my athlete to the weight class they need/want to fight in and have them always being in the best shape possible for that weight. Most of the time for my male athletes, this means they want to gain weight. I have NEVER in my years of experience had any problems with the "training to failure" principle in packing on lean muscle . It has worked well for me and my athletes and I will continue to have them train in this fashion until someone else can show me a more efficient and effective way to get them to where they need to be.
Besides being a NCCP qualified coach, I have worked at GoodLife Fitness as well as the YMCA as a Personal Trainer since 1990. So what I am trying to get across here is that I know what I do based on plain, old fashion, down and dirty...EXPERIENCE! 

Bojangles

 

[NiTz]

Hmm....1 gram is the low end of bulking. 1 gram is the amount required by your body for maintaining your current muscle level, 1-1.6grams is a more appropriate amount. During bulking phases I shoot for 2-4 grams per lean body pound,

Oohh.. cool I didn't know you could go for so much protein! I agree fully with the fact that it's better to have too much protein and piss it than not enough. Anyways, 4 g. of protein per lean body pound makes a lot of protein! Better go and offer me a shake now! 

Cheers!

 

[plattypuss]

Bojangles

This column was a very interesting read and I especially enjoyed the debate over muscle failure training.  I think a lot of the comments that have been written are deserving of merit.  I am interested in the quandry that must be faced for a boxer to meet the weight (which I assume would mean in most cases dropping the weight) and maintaining muscle endurance/strength.  I would have thought that for a boxer muscle endurance might be more important than muscle strength.  Do you change your exercise recomendations for a boxer so that they might build muscle endurance as opposed to building strength?  If yes would this then be lighter weight more reps (12-15)?  This also ties in to the debate slightly as you previously mentioned that higher rep exercises tend to be for toning muscle not building bulk.  I guess the cautionary for training to failure might be to ensure that you have a trg partner or a certified trainer to ensure that trg failure does not mean you train to injury. 
I might recommend that for general military life that the skinny person may be better served to train for endurance as opposed to bulk.
Off topic - Does anyone know what happenned to Muscle Media magazine? Years ago (before Pavlov) I thought it was one of the better magazines out there.

 

[Island Ryhno]

Muscle Media disappeared, I didn't care for it much as it was owned by EAS and all the articles were basically a marketing venue for EAS supplements. I like EAS stuff, but i didn't like reading about how it turned people into great works of art all the time, got sickening after awhile  : As for the protein consumption, I'm a little skeptical about this stuff and here is why, you know who pushes that 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight stuff....Supplement companies, Weider, EAS, Pro Lab, they all have their own magazines and their own spokespeople. All advice should be taken with a grain of salt. You do need protein to build muscle, no doubt about it but it can get out of hand. Here are some figures for you, an average size chicken breast has 28g protein, each gram of protein has about 4 calories. So lets say your 165lbs trying to add 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. You would have to eat 12 chicken breasts a day, which is 1344 calories alone (not counting carbs or fat which I assume would be in your other foods) Now I know, I know what about protein shakes right, well ok lets say you supplement with GNC's Pro Performance Elite Whey Protein (that's what I use) it has 160 cals and 40g protein per serving (without milk) so lets divide your protein into supps and food, because, cmon no one is going to eat 12 chix breasts. So at 165lbs x 2g protein = 330g protein So 4 protein shakes will give you 160g protein, that leaves you with 170g protein to go at 28g per chix breast your looking at 170/28 = 6.071 chix breasts. Enjoy your meal!

 

[NiTz]

humm... seen this way, it looks impossible. I'm 165 pounds and I never ate more than 180 g a day.. and that was a BIG day! Like.. 3 shakes, I ate chicken for dinner and steak for supper ...

How can this be? Let's say, for a 250 pounds guys, that would be 500g of protein? Geeezz... looks like it's way too much IMO.


Cheers

 

[Island Ryhno]

Exactly Nitz, it is almost impossible, I'm 290lbs, do you know how much protein I would have to take at 4 grams per pound of body weight as someone suggested? 1160 grams of protein per day  :  So lets look at it the way most sensible body builders do, that is 1gr per pound of body weight, with a high of 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Seems a little more attainable now doesn't it. 

 

[NiTz]

Exactly Nitz, it is almost impossible, I'm 290lbs, do you know how much protein I would have to take at 4 grams per pound of body weight as someone suggested? 1160 grams of protein per day  :  So lets look at it the way most sensible body builders do, that is 1gr per pound of body weight, with a high of 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Seems a little more attainable now doesn't it. 

Indeed it does.. I guess i'll stay with the good ol' rule of 1 g. It worked fine so far (took nearly 35 pounds in a year) so i'll stick with it.

By the way, at 290lbs, you must be pretty ripped. When did you start lifting?

Cheers!

 

[Island Ryhno]

I've been lifting for about 5 years solid, with on and off gym time for the past 10 years. At 295lbs I'm fat, I hurt my shoulder bad playing hockey and was out of the gym for the past 18 months, at that time I balooned, I'm hoping to get down around 250lbs by August, at 250lbs my body fat was closing in on 15% which is good, I'm a naturally big guy. I was 225lbs and ripped in grade 10, oh the good old days  ;D

 

[NiTz]

wow.. 15% b.f. at 250 lbs that's awesome! You're lucky to be a naturally big guy, I am pretty small and I don't like it. at 5'8" 165 lbs.. geezzz that's not very impressive, but a solid 250lbs is!

Keep on the good work!


Cheers!

 

[Island Ryhno]

Yeah well sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, i.e. I can lug around about 3 times the weight of most people for 3 times as long but running, well I'd trade you that 250 for 165, I bet you could run me into the ground. Ces't la vie, I say work with what you got, I struggle real hard to run 5k, but when something needs to be pushed, pulled or dragged, guess who gets the call  Everyones got their thing, and I believe there is a use for all body types in the forces.

 

[BDG.CalgHighrs]

Yeah well sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, i.e. I can lug around about 3 times the weight of most people for 3 times as long but running, well I'd trade you that 250 for 165, I bet you could run me into the ground. Ces't la vie, I say work with what you got, I struggle real hard to run 5k, but when something needs to be pushed, pulled or dragged, guess who gets the call   Everyones got their thing, and I believe there is a use for all body types in the forces.

I bet you'd also make a much better human breaching device than him  ;D

 

[NiTz]

Lol! Oh, i'm not a good runner at all! I hate running! I like more to pull or push things but i'm not heavy enough so sometimes I can't move something because I move myself instead.. lol!


Cheers!