Physician Assistant

[Donut]

Since this thread has popped back up, I'll update people on what I've heard wrt the PA programs here in BC.

University of Washington approached the JIBC about a joint PA program, meeting both CAPA and Washington State PA licensing requirements in spring 2005.  For whatever reason, this partnership never materialized.  I will speculate that due to the nature of the JI, their current curriculum and their relationship with various other health care centers in BC, as well as not training any health care providers other then paramedics, it made them a less-then-stellar match for the partnership.  UW then approached UBC about a program.  As UBC is in the midst of setting up med schools (or satellite campuses) at UVIC and UNBC, they declined for the moment, but didn't totally discount the possibility of a program some time down the road.

As a result, starting in September 2006, UW will be accepting BC students into a jointly accredited PA program, taught in Seattle, Tacoma, and (shudder) Yakima. 

As far as the CF is concerned a question that needs an answer, discussed here before, becomes what does the CF do when a licensed and practicing PA walks into a recruiting center and says he'd like to be in the CF.

Instant Sgts?  Commissions all around?  I'll tell you, they're not going to sign up as privates, and they'll be a lot cheaper then growing our own.  We'll need a policy on this.

DF

 

[Fraser.g]

Here is the update from the flat lands,

The Saskatoon Regional Health Authority has just signed an MoU with DND to get PAs as well as other health care professionals into the hospitals and clinics run by the region.
It was just singed two months ago and so little physical action has happend up to this point. Not surprising with all the legal and insurance details that have to be addressed.

I have also herd rumblings that the U of S is going to start a PA program as well.

I have been able to piggyback reserve medics onto this MOU to get them in and assessing real patients on the wards. The ER is to follow.
All this will happen under the supervision of a health care professional who is oriented to the local.

GF

 

[medicineman]

Instant Sgts?   Commissions all around?   I'll tell you, they're not going to sign up as privates, and they'll be a lot cheaper then growing our own.   We'll need a policy on this.

The last I heard, as far as pollicy is concerned is simply that they won't be commissioned.  The last, and I'm sure the present DGHS, was quite adament about that  Which then leads to to  - what do the global we do with them then?  Sure, make them instant Sgt's or WO's - that's almost as bad as what happens when we take our baby MO's, some with ZERO military training and throw them to the wolves (ie an infantry batallion) where they often end up being moulded in the wrong way or used and abused.  Small problem with our trade advancement being linked to our rank advancement - if you're at a certain rank, you're expected to functionat that rank, not just at your trade level.  Kind of goes back to the threads on fast tracking people through the system.  To be honest, the CF will do what it usually does - pretend the issue doesn't exist and only worry about it should/when the problem presents itself, all the while hoping it doesn't.

MM

 

[Armymedic]

what do you do?

Well, how about just not recruit them into the regular force? Besides the pay would (and is currently) much less in the CF then they will earn for thier work elsewhere.

 

[Gunner98]

Not sure that JIBC will be in the fold for the future of Med Tech training!? 

It has been considered that creating Clinical Path Tech WO positions is an option (a la US Army).  Let's be serious when Dr. Randy B (Psych) went from a Maj to full Col in a matter of 5 minutes at an NDMC assembly, he did not assume the priviledges of being a full Col.  Clinical Path positions exist throughout the CFHS - don't be short-sighted.

Retaining the home grown PAs is an equally puzzling dilemna - the 2-year PA course does not currently have any Obligatory Service attached to it.  They are (or will be) leaving en masse.

 

[medicineman]

Retaining the home grown PAs is an equally puzzling dilemna - the 2-year PA course does not currently have any Obligatory Service attached to it.   They are (or will be) leaving en masse.


Which they likely wouldn't do if they were (a) Trained earlier in their careers, (b)  getting a degree, as per an earlier MOU in the making with a university in the US, which leads to (c) being allowed to do post - grad training which would useful to the CF, which is difficult to do without the degree, as these programs in the US are all Master's Degrees.  Sure, in all likelihood, there will be a large number of people leaving, but some of that is attrition anyway - most people are getting this course at year 17 or 18 at the moment - so not alot are planning on staying much past that and are just doing some 2nd career planning by taking the course, which goes back to item (a).  I think it's going to get a bit worse before it gets better.

MM

 

[old medic]

Thread Update time:

Ontario Ministry of Health Press Release
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/media/news_releases/archives/nr_06/nov/bg_110806.pdf
8 November 2006

PHYSICIAN ASSISTANTS AND NURSE PRACTITIONERS BEING ADDED TO
HOSPITAL EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS

The McGuinty government is investing a total of $2 million in six pilot projects where physician
assistants and nurse practitioners will be deployed to work in hospital emergency departments.

Physician Assistants

Physician Assistant (PA) is an innovative new health care professional role in Ontario and is part of the
HealthForceOntario health human resources strategy to increase the number of health care professionals
working in the province, including doctors and nurses.

Like Physician Assistants in the United States, the Canadian military and Manitoba, Physician
Assistants in Ontario will supplement physician services and work under the authority of a supervising
licensed physician. The physician will retain overall responsibility for the direction of the Physician
Assistant’s activities as well as accountability for the health care delivered.

Under direction of a supervising physician, a PA trained by the Canadian military has the skills and
experience to deal with medical emergencies as well as routine care needs.

The existing and pending PA education programs in Canada are several years in length. The Canadian
Forces Physician Assistant Program is the only formal education program for PA’s currently working in
Canada. Only those individuals with 10 to 15 years’ experience working as a paramedic within the
Canadian Forces are selected to take this accredited program which includes 12 months of in-class
instruction and 47 weeks of clinical rotations.

The clinical tasks assigned to a Physician Assistant in the emergency department demonstration pilots
will depend on the agreement between the specific supervising physician and the PA at that site.

 

[medicineman]

I kind of knew it was coming, but wasn't allowed to say anything - sorry.

MM

 

[Armymedic]

yep, just waiting for the announcement.

Its still only recognition, not licensing (where a PA can work independently of a supervising MD) but its a good step. It'll be all good for the people of Ontario.

 

[MedCorps]

Do you think as jobs open up in Ontario emergency departments we will see a mass exodus from Regular Force at the ranks of WO upward?

I can see WO's who have 20 years, with the chance of a good paying civilian job "moving toward the light". 

Hmm...

MC

 

[Fraser.g]

Sask is opening legislation as well to get the PAs into the ED and other areas.
NPs are already there in some cases as they do not need new legislation for the job only and expanded scope of practice.

GF

 

[adamop]

This is great. But I must ask - when will the education opportunities start coming out? Which universities have PA programs in the works? And what will the requirements be... previous bachelors degree? Or will they launch a Bachelor program specifically for the PA? I could see it being a post-secondary diploma or something, like medical school except only 2 years no residency, less stringent requuirements. Sort of like the USA does it.

 

[old medic]

This is great. But I must ask - when will the education opportunities start coming out? Which universities have PA programs in the works? And what will the requirements be...

1. When the universities come out with them.
2. The ones that decide they want to teach this.
3. Whatever the CMA tells them the accreditation requirements are. See http://www.muhc.ca/media/ensemble/2005jan/teaching/

 

[adamop]

1. When the universities come out with them.
2. The ones that decide they want to teach this.
3. Whatever the CMA tells them the accreditation requirements are. See http://www.muhc.ca/media/ensemble/2005jan/teaching/

Thanks for the insider info.

 

[Armymedic]

PAs now have compulsory service after their course. As for 20+ yr PAs getting out, let them go... It just opens more WO positions for those Sgts coming up...LIKE ME  ;D.

 

[medicineman]

This is great. But I must ask - when will the education opportunities start coming out? Which universities have PA programs in the works? And what will the requirements be... previous bachelors degree? Or will they launch a Bachelor program specifically for the PA? I could see it being a post-secondary diploma or something, like medical school except only 2 years no residency, less stringent requuirements. Sort of like the USA does it.

As it stands right now, from what we were told here in Borden, the pilot program from UMan is going to be a Master's; I believe (but don't quote me) but Dalhousie was looking at a similar such degree, along the same line as their Ophthalmological Techonologist program, which is a MSc.

I was accpeted to a  program in the US a couple of years ago - most places are going towards a minimum of a BSc for when you graduate, in fact the one I was accepted to had 2 tracks - one you came in with 2 years pre-proffessional already and you did the 2 professional years, or you did a full 4 year BSc.  AAPA is actually pushing for a minimum of a BSc, but they would actually prefer a Master's as the baseline degree (Nurse practioners are MSN's in the US and for the most part in Canada).  Things may change here to mirror what AAPA does eventually.  As for the 2 years training, one is all classroom, and the second is classed as an internship/residency, in hospital or clinics with real patients.  You can also opt to take post grad specialty training in a wide number of medical or surgical specialties/subspecialties - these are generally a Master's or a second Master's depending on your degree status from where you graduated.

MM's opinion is I don't see an outflood of PA's to Ontario's hospitals as yet - the Ministry trial is with 6 PA's in 6 centres.  Where there might be an outflood to are the civilian positions within CF clinics as they come open, not to mention any number of other positions with firms working overseas mining exploration and other such things.

Watch and shoot for now.

MM

 

[R933ex]

Just finished a poll with some of my co workers at the WCB, currently we know of at least 10 PA's operating as stand alone advanced medical care primarily in the mines.

All but 3 of them are retired CF the other 3 are graduates of programs in the US and 1 from South Africa.

 

[old medic]

Ontario has added PA to it's medical recruiting website as of December 8th.

http://www.healthforceontario.ca/WhatIsHFO/NewRoles.aspx

http://www.healthforceontario.ca/

 

[ModlrMike]

There have been considerable developments WRT the PA occupation these past few years. There will be more to come, I'm sure. My advice is to "watch and shoot". Yes, there will be interesting times when civilian universities start graduating PAs who want to serve, but that time is several years off yet. UMan has not announced their course yet, though the rumour is that it will sit this fall, and I have heard nothing WRT UBC or any other university yet. The best bet is to check the CAPA website http://www.caopa.net or to find and ask a PA. Nothing is gained through speculation.