Pipelines, energy and natural resources

[Fishbone Jones]

No, I actually believed that if the PM ordered the RCMP to do something about civil disobedience or disorder, it would get done. I didn't, however, believe that any other government on whose behalf the RCMP policed had that authority.

Worked like a charm when trudeau said the rail blockades, by Indigenous people, were illegal. They held the country hostage. Caused millions to be lost, by staging blockades and damaging rail property. The government did nothing.

Beside the RCMP under provincial jurisdiction, does CN/CP not have their own federal police? Are they not responsible for the right of way, trespass and keeping the line clear. Where were they?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Pretty sure this is not good news for Enbridge or for Canada on the whole. Really need to bring this entire line into Canada and run it into Sarnia from our side of the lakes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/supreme-court-rules-for-michigan-in-its-fight-to-shut-down-an-aging-energy-pipeline-9.7173206

U.S. Supreme Court rules for Michigan in its fight to shut down an aging energy pipeline​

Judge said Enbridge waited too long to try to move case to federal court​

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday sided with Michigan in ruling that the state's lawsuit seeking to shut down a section of an aging pipeline beneath a Great Lakes channel will stay in state court.

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel sued in state court in June 2019, seeking to void the easement that allows Enbridge to operate a 6.4-kilometre section of pipeline under the Straits of Mackinac, which link Lake Michigan and Lake Huron.

Nessel, a Democrat, won a restraining order shutting down the pipeline from Ingham County Judge James Jamo in June 2020, although Enbridge was allowed to continue operations after meeting safety requirements.

Enbridge moved the lawsuit into federal court in 2021, arguing it affects U.S. and Canadian trade. But a three-judge panel from the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sent the case back to Jamo in June 2024, finding that the company missed a 30-day deadline to change jurisdictions.

The pipeline at issue is called Line 5. Concerns over the section beneath the straits rupturing and causing a catastrophic spill have been growing since 2017, when Enbridge engineers revealed they had known about gaps in the section's protective coating since 2014. A boat anchor damaged the section in 2018, intensifying fears of a spill.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources under Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, revoked the straits easement for Line 5 in 2020. Enbridge has filed a separate federal lawsuit challenging the revocation.

The company is seeking permits to encase the section of pipeline beneath the straits in a protective tunnel. The Michigan Public Service Commission granted the relevant permits in 2023, but Enbridge still needs approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy.

The pipeline is at the centre of a legal dispute in Wisconsin as well. A federal judge in Madison last summer gave Enbridge three years to shut down part of Line 5 that runs across the Bad River Band of Lake Superior's reservation. The company has proposed rerouting the pipeline around the reservation and has appealed the shutdown order to the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

 

[lenaitch]

Pretty sure this is not good news for Enbridge or for Canada on the whole. Really need to bring this entire line into Canada and run it into Sarnia from our side of the lakes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/supreme-court-rules-for-michigan-in-its-fight-to-shut-down-an-aging-energy-pipeline-9.7173206

U.S. Supreme Court rules for Michigan in its fight to shut down an aging energy pipeline​

Judge said Enbridge waited too long to try to move case to federal court​

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday sided with Michigan in ruling that the state's lawsuit seeking to shut down a section of an aging pipeline beneath a Great Lakes channel will stay in state court.

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel sued in state court in June 2019, seeking to void the easement that allows Enbridge to operate a 6.4-kilometre section of pipeline under the Straits of Mackinac, which link Lake Michigan and Lake Huron.

Nessel, a Democrat, won a restraining order shutting down the pipeline from Ingham County Judge James Jamo in June 2020, although Enbridge was allowed to continue operations after meeting safety requirements.

Enbridge moved the lawsuit into federal court in 2021, arguing it affects U.S. and Canadian trade. But a three-judge panel from the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sent the case back to Jamo in June 2024, finding that the company missed a 30-day deadline to change jurisdictions.

The pipeline at issue is called Line 5. Concerns over the section beneath the straits rupturing and causing a catastrophic spill have been growing since 2017, when Enbridge engineers revealed they had known about gaps in the section's protective coating since 2014. A boat anchor damaged the section in 2018, intensifying fears of a spill.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources under Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, revoked the straits easement for Line 5 in 2020. Enbridge has filed a separate federal lawsuit challenging the revocation.

The company is seeking permits to encase the section of pipeline beneath the straits in a protective tunnel. The Michigan Public Service Commission granted the relevant permits in 2023, but Enbridge still needs approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy.

The pipeline is at the centre of a legal dispute in Wisconsin as well. A federal judge in Madison last summer gave Enbridge three years to shut down part of Line 5 that runs across the Bad River Band of Lake Superior's reservation. The company has proposed rerouting the pipeline around the reservation and has appealed the shutdown order to the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

That is definitely a vulnerability. Repatriating a new route should be considered in the list of 'nation building projects'.

 

[brihard]

Worked like a charm when trudeau said the rail blockades, by Indigenous people, were illegal. They held the country hostage. Caused millions to be lost, by staging blockades and damaging rail property. The government did nothing.

Beside the RCMP under provincial jurisdiction, does CN/CP not have their own federal police? Are they not responsible for the right of way, trespass and keeping the line clear. Where were they?

I've never heard of the rail police having anything remotely close to a public order capability. They're penny-packeted around and do patrol and some investigations.

Any major public order issue would default to the police of jurisdiction in that area; municipal if it's within a municipality that has their own, or provincial police. It might goto RCMP if they're the provincial police in the province, but it wouldn't be a 'federal policing' RCMP thing.

 

[lenaitch]

Then a more forcefully arguement needs to be made. S35 is a duty to consult, not obtain consent. Get our ducks in a row, properly and thoroughly consult. Then start building, with heavy security.

Except that there is the pesky Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act which formalizes the acceptance of "free, prior and informed consent" on any matters affecting their land or rights.

No, I actually believed that if the PM ordered the RCMP to do something about civil disobedience or disorder, it would get done. I didn't, however, believe that any other government on whose behalf the RCMP policed had that authority.

In addition to governments not being able to give operational direction to a police service, police enforcement of court injunctions is subject operational discretion in terms of the how and when. Public safety (everybody's) and the Charter take precedence.

 

[lenaitch]

Worked like a charm when trudeau said the rail blockades, by Indigenous people, were illegal. They held the country hostage. Caused millions to be lost, by staging blockades and damaging rail property. The government did nothing.

Beside the RCMP under provincial jurisdiction, does CN/CP not have their own federal police? Are they not responsible for the right of way, trespass and keeping the line clear. Where were they?

According to a 2024 Transport Canada document, there is a grand total of 180 railway police officers working for four Canadian railways (assume CN, CPKC, VIA and maybe GO/Metrolinx). I don't know if any of that small number work in CN/CPKC properties in the US.

Not a lot of depth. Many argue that, as full authority police services, they are an anachronism.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The 'left flanking' around the pipeline resistant central BC gets a luke warm reception ... BC's self-inflicted wound culture on full show:

B.C. government reacts to report Ottawa favours southern pipeline route​

A new pipeline from Alberta to B.C. is in the spotlight again but the preferred plan is reportedly one with a terminus in Vancouver.
The federal government is refocusing Alberta-B.C. pipeline efforts on a southern route rather than a northern option, according to a report in the Globe and Mail.

B.C. Energy Minister Adrian Dix fielded extensive questions on the report at the legislature in Victoria Tuesday, initially positive about Ottawa seemingly pivoting away from a potential northern pipeline route.

“We’ve been really clear on some of these issues,” Dix said in relation to the northern pipeline option. “Particularly, as you’ll note, on the tanker ban. And if this report indicates the federal government accepts that point of view, that’s a good development.”

Dix didn’t seem enthusiastic about a pipeline with a southern route but didn’t talk about it in the same critical tone he did while describing the northern option.

He said he understood that the federal and Alberta governments would look to pursue their visions.

“What we expect in B.C, and what we will insist on, is that British Columbia’s strong economic interests in growth and projects that are real in the present—not on paper, not speculating in newspapers, but real, in the present—receive say equal attention. Or, of course, I would prefer more [attention],” Dix said.

With Ottawa apparently shifting course but still seemingly focused on building a pipeline through B.C., environmental groups are watching on with concern.

“Regardless of whether the route is in the North or the South we don’t support another pipeline,” said Isabel Siu-Zmuidzinas with the Wilderness Committee, while saying governments should expect significant protests if a project were approved.

B.C. government reacts to report Ottawa favours southern pipeline route

The federal government is refocusing Alberta-B.C. pipeline efforts on a southern route rather than a northern option, according to a report in the Globe and Mail.

vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've never heard of the rail police having anything remotely close to a public order capability. They're penny-packeted around and do patrol and some investigations.

Any major public order issue would default to the police of jurisdiction in that area; municipal if it's within a municipality that has their own, or provincial police. It might goto RCMP if they're the provincial police in the province, but it wouldn't be a 'federal policing' RCMP thing.

Would that still be the case when railways are federal jurisdiction?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

According to a 2024 Transport Canada document, there is a grand total of 180 railway police officers working for four Canadian railways (assume CN, CPKC, VIA and maybe GO/Metrolinx). I don't know if any of that small number work in CN/CPKC properties in the US.

Not a lot of depth. Many argue that, as full authority police services, they are an anachronism.

That likely a mistake on my part. I'm just too used to railway cops chasing people down, in town, to give a speeding ticket for crossing their tracks too fast. Perhaps they are just more noticeable around here.

 

[brihard]

Would that still be the case when railways are federal jurisdiction?

Yeah. The concept of federal versus provincial jurisdiction is often misunderstood; property being federally owned or regulated doesn’t mean that police response is automatically a federal jam. Hell, even right on Parliament Hill any normal crime is all Ottawa Police now.

In practice for something like a railway blockade it would probably be a request for assistance from the railways to the province.

 

[Kirkhill]

I've never heard of the rail police having anything remotely close to a public order capability. They're penny-packeted around and do patrol and some investigations.

Any major public order issue would default to the police of jurisdiction in that area; municipal if it's within a municipality that has their own, or provincial police. It might goto RCMP if they're the provincial police in the province, but it wouldn't be a 'federal policing' RCMP thing.

Canadian railway police—often historically referred to as "railway dicks" or "bulls"—have played a central role in protecting corporate assets and managing social unrest on Canadian rail lines since the late 19th century. Their methods evolved from frontier-style security to specialized law enforcement focusing on preventing hobos from riding trains and suppressing labor strikes.
Managing "Hobos" (Train Riders) and Trespassers
The "Bulls" Era: During the early 20th century, particularly the Great Depression (1930s), railway police were known for their strict, often brutal, methods of removing the nearly 400,000 unemployed men riding the rails in search of work.
Brutal Tactics: Railway "bulls" or security agents were known for forcing train jumpers off, sometimes with severe beatings or by throwing them from moving trains.
Protecting Assets: Their primary duty was to protect freight, stop theft, and keep rail yards, depots, and junctions secure from unauthorized individuals.
Surveillance: They acted as undercover agents to detect theft and sabotage, especially during war times.
OKthePK


Managing Strikers and Labour Unrest
Protecting Property: Railway police were employed to protect railway property and "people while on CN property" during labor disputes.
Breaking Strikes: Historically, railway detectives and private police agencies were instrumental in breaking strikes, acting on behalf of the railway corporation's interests in ensuring the trains kept moving.
Early Intervention: During the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) in the 1880s, special forces (like those under Sam Steele) or railway police were tasked with managing large, often unruly, camps of workers, sometimes facing hundreds of strikers at once.
Escalation: In the event of high-level strikes, railway police often worked in tandem with the RCMP and local police to manage union activism and maintain control of rail yards.
CN Rail

Historical Context and Authority
Private Police Powers: Since the 19th century, railway police have held unique powers, often having the same authority as "peace officers" under the Railway Safety Act and Criminal Code of Canada, allowing them to make arrests on and within 500 meters of railway property.
Shift in Focus: While in the past their main job was protecting "CN's image, assets and interests," their role has evolved towards safety and, in more recent times, community involvement and reducing the public dangers of trespassing.
Accountability: They have traditionally answered to their own police chiefs at the railways and, by extension, to company executives.

Canadian railway police, specifically the CN Police Service and CPKC Police Service, are federally empowered agencies in Canada that manage safety and security threats, including trespassing ("rail-riders," historically referred to as hobos) and unauthorized blockades, within a 500-meter radius of rail property. They hold the same powers as local police and often work in collaboration with the RCMP to address threats to critical infrastructure.
CN Rail

Managing "Rail-Riders" (Formerly Hobos)
Safety Focus: Modern railway police focus on the extreme safety risks of "rail-riding," as unauthorized boarding and traversing of rail yards can result in fatalities.
Enforcement: Officers, such as those with the CPKC Police, conduct routine patrols, issue warnings or federal/provincial fines, and remove individuals found on trains or in secure rail yards.
Proactive Patrols: They use proactive, patrol-based projects to identify unauthorized individuals, often using technology and coordination with other police services to manage individuals moving between areas.
Terminology Update: CP Police have noted a shift away from the term "hobo" to "rail-riders," focusing on the illegal,, and dangerous act of riding freight cars for transportation.
YouTube

Managing Strikers and Blockades
Protecting Property: Railway police are responsible for ensuring that infrastructure is protected, which includes removing barricades, protestors, or strikers who stop train operations.
Removal of Blockades: In situations like the 2020 blockades in Ontario, railway police coordinate with regional forces (e.g., OPP) to enforce court-ordered injunctions, arrest, and remove protesters blocking tracks, often after a deadline passes.
Legal Authority: Under the Railway Safety Act, railway police are empowered to investigate and remove individuals interfering with the safe operation of trains.
Operational Continuity: Their primary goal is to ensure that rail operations can resume as quickly as possible, ensuring the security of the supply chain.
CN Rail

Powers and Jurisdiction
Federal Authority: CN and CPKC police officers are sworn in by a superior court and have peace officer powers throughout Canada.
500-Meter Rule: They have jurisdiction over issues relating to railway property, particularly within 500 meters of that property.
Collaboration: While they are a private police force paid by the railway company, they often coordinate with the RCMP or local police services.
CN Rail

 

[Kirkhill]

The 'left flanking' around the pipeline resistant central BC gets a luke warm reception ... BC's self-inflicted wound culture on full show:

B.C. government reacts to report Ottawa favours southern pipeline route​

A new pipeline from Alberta to B.C. is in the spotlight again but the preferred plan is reportedly one with a terminus in Vancouver.
The federal government is refocusing Alberta-B.C. pipeline efforts on a southern route rather than a northern option, according to a report in the Globe and Mail.

B.C. Energy Minister Adrian Dix fielded extensive questions on the report at the legislature in Victoria Tuesday, initially positive about Ottawa seemingly pivoting away from a potential northern pipeline route.

“We’ve been really clear on some of these issues,” Dix said in relation to the northern pipeline option. “Particularly, as you’ll note, on the tanker ban. And if this report indicates the federal government accepts that point of view, that’s a good development.”

Dix didn’t seem enthusiastic about a pipeline with a southern route but didn’t talk about it in the same critical tone he did while describing the northern option.

He said he understood that the federal and Alberta governments would look to pursue their visions.

“What we expect in B.C, and what we will insist on, is that British Columbia’s strong economic interests in growth and projects that are real in the present—not on paper, not speculating in newspapers, but real, in the present—receive say equal attention. Or, of course, I would prefer more [attention],” Dix said.

With Ottawa apparently shifting course but still seemingly focused on building a pipeline through B.C., environmental groups are watching on with concern.

“Regardless of whether the route is in the North or the South we don’t support another pipeline,” said Isabel Siu-Zmuidzinas with the Wilderness Committee, while saying governments should expect significant protests if a project were approved.

B.C. government reacts to report Ottawa favours southern pipeline route

The federal government is refocusing Alberta-B.C. pipeline efforts on a southern route rather than a northern option, according to a report in the Globe and Mail.

vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca

And they question Nutrien heading for tidewater on the Columbia in Washington.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A look back at how important WWII was for Western Canada. War and the threat of war can be very good at sharpening our focus.

 

[Czech_pivo]

According to a 2024 Transport Canada document, there is a grand total of 180 railway police officers working for four Canadian railways (assume CN, CPKC, VIA and maybe GO/Metrolinx). I don't know if any of that small number work in CN/CPKC properties in the US.

Not a lot of depth. Many argue that, as full authority police services, they are an anachronism.

The 2 areas could be in Windsor and Sarnia, at the railway tunnels in both locations.

CP now owns the Windsor-Detroit tunnel and CN owns the Sarina-Port Huron one.

I have an uncle who for years through the '90's and into the 2000's worked daily on shunting trains back and forth through the CP owned tunnel in Windsor-Detroit. He's got an endless amount of stories that he rolls out from time to time about what he saw/experienced first hand during that time. Things like physically restraining with his belt illegal immigrants trying to go into both the US and Canada, to watching vans full of people roll onto CP owned land in Detroit and emptying entire boxcars destine for Canada of flat screen tv's. I never asked him of the CP rail cops on the Canadian side had the ability to ride the train with them into Detroit to try and enforce law on CP's land in Detroit. I'll try and ask him the next time I see him. I also remember him saying that the US Customs guys were complete assholes to deal with. Treated him and his co-workers like criminals he said in the past.