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Pipelines, energy and natural resources

  • Thread starter Thread starter QV
  • Start date Start date
I'm going to point a couple of things re: original TransMountain.

TransMountain did the consultation and then turned it over to the federal gov't to make a decision.
The Consultation was originally done and final phases, Waiting on approval.
When the Feds, Provincial and Municipal Governments kept adding to the list of requirements then things fell apart.
Then the government swooped in to save the day and voila things were approved that previously were not.
What the challange was on in regards to consultation was that the crown was unable to show any evidence it considered the consultation work done
after the added changes or before? This is a very important context of the discussion.
and, when alternatives existed, no decision making process was given to the alternatives.
What alternatives, this route needed to go down a specific path to make it viable following existing pipeline right ways.
Consultation must be shown to inform a decision and if you have no record of looking at the work done and/or alternative routes proposed...you're wide open for a challange.
The alternatives routes along the southern pipeline had already been eliminated previously by both government and industry as not being viable years earlier. To ignore that simple fact is playing games with political agendas.

The alternatives routes were the northern pipeline proposals.
I will also note there have been other challanges go to the courts where a First Nation(s) were opposed to the project and the project went ahead as the proponent (industry) showed tons of evidence of consulting in good faith and when agreement was not able to be done the Crown determined that a standard had been meet and exceeded.
Only after the government caused issues with allowing this to happen. Funny how First Nations were suing each other over the pipeline delays and routes. Not sure where that all went as things went silent when those in support of the pipelines along the route started to show their support.
At least locally...and the TransMountain pipeline is very local to me...there was limited contracts signed under the original plan and many contractors were disqualified by the federal bidding process.
That is funny, many of the companies I know involved had signed their contracts and were doing preliminary work along the route, a few others were putting infrastructure in the ground prior to the delay. This included buying the equipment they required as part of the contract. Their contracts were take or pay for that portion.
What the feds did afterwards with assigning the contracts that had already been previously done was silly. Drove costs through the rough. Had a few previous bidders walk away and close their doors.
Only very large contractors were allowed to bid but also had a series of points to gain including FN employment participation and "local" workforce.

Local according to the federal government was western Canada residence so right off the bat staff housing costs went high vs. local labor forces.
Originally that was not the case, it had to be explained to the Federal Government that there was not enough Local skill to make each KM "local" only. They settled with Western as local. Somehow ended up with Eastern Canada groups working here who had no clue how to work the mountains and or swamps.
Construction was god awful disjointed...contractor does this mile...but then skips one...then does two...and skips two....erratic. Spreading the work out as deadlines were long but then because more "route is open"
LOL it was much worse when pipe that was ordered had to re ordered due to damage from sitting outside to long exposed due to improper storage procedures. The expert contractor told the government this is how it needs to be done, then the government says we know better our guy says it is ok. The Inspector comes along and says not chance.
I had buddy go inspect pipe in a yard that was all disposed of for various reasons, The cost to replace the pipe with new stuff was cheaper then his cost to inspect. They ended up replacing the pipe. Again some person calling shots from the office with no clue adding cost after cost and delay after delay.
I think a few of the get er done work forces realized they did not need to get er done as fast, as things would change the next day what work they did had to be redone at times to appease someone in an office.
the monitoring guys loved it...gravy train for 3 years on what most companies do in a couple of months.
LOL, yup lots of ass time so to speak. Many of the backend/ direct front support was similar to this. Move two steps forward 6 backwards. They surveyed the same piece of land multiple times. Looking for changes to suit a person calling shots who never stepped foot on the ground, looking for a alternative route.
Add in significant design changes on the federal plan especially in BC to bore more crossings vs. open excavation and costs jumped again...got told boring alone was close to 10% of the project costs under the feds as it was a "greener" approach.
Follow the money train, and one has to scratch their head on who made those calls.
End of day it's going to be very interesting to have the twinned TransMountain route + ATCO Yellowhead Mainline parrel (scheduled for this fall) + new pipeline.
It was previously discussed that the current route was full and no more room for a third or fourth pipeline hence why the northern other southern routes were required. I guess the main contractor has been given the go ahead and the feds will approve their own project without the headaches in the way.
Funny how that works
Not the real question how many tens of billions will this one cost?
 
I was thinking of my past customers around the Foot of Gore and the local fishing industry. Condo developments significantly curtailed industrial activity.
Nothing west of Centennial Pier was ever well-suited to large modern freighters - the south and west edges of the pier have never been more than rip-rap - and the fishing industry diminished for other reasons. Gentrification at Crab Park and Canada Place happened to fill a vaccuum; it wasn't pushing healthy industry out.

I'm sure it's possible to point to a bit of shoreline here and there which might be usable for contemporary longshoring that has been overtaken by higher-value uses, but there's no real case for "the waterfront has been killed".
 
I will sum shit up here
"We need pipelines"
"No we don't"
"Yes we do"
"Ok, who is paying for it"
"Private Corporations should"
"federal government should"
"province should"
"What about the environment?"
"What about indigenous peoples?" (First nations "We need that cash!")
"We need carbon taxes/fees"
'We need carbon credits"
"Thats helps the climate, how?"
"What about the economy?"
"We need pipelines..."

Round and round we go.

Meanwhile we keep on pumping oil down to the USA for dirt cheap and they mark it up and make a killing. Go Canada.
 
Hell of a project to try to push a pipeline through to there…

And, purely coincidentally I'm sure, there are no Liberal MPs up in that neck of the woods.

Unlike Delta, Surrey and Vancouver, for example ;)

 
You did get the part that Trump's America is making a killing on our oil? That means our oil, your oil becomes MAGA oil. And I know that sticks in your craw. The same stuff we trip over ourselves trying to decide to actually get it going to other markets.
 
You did get the part that Trump's America is making a killing on our oil? That means our oil, your oil becomes MAGA oil. And I know that sticks in your craw. The same stuff we trip over ourselves trying to decide to actually get it going to other markets.
And we are getting a pipeline to sell more to the global price than the US markdown.

Go Canada.:cdn:
 
And we are getting a pipeline to sell more to the global price than the US markdown.

Go Canada.:cdn:
Your youthful optimism is admirable. You did see all the conditions to go with said pipeline PROPOSAL?

Other nations build ports, terminals, pipelines, etc in the time we decide to have consultation phases.
 
Your youthful optimism is admirable. You did see all the conditions to go with said pipeline PROPOSAL?

Other nations build ports, terminals, pipelines, etc in the time we decide to have consultation phases.
It's fairly typical in Canada for a preliminary announcement of intentions to be trumpeted as an accomplished concrete gain.
 
Your youthful optimism is admirable. You did see all the conditions to go with said pipeline PROPOSAL?

Other nations build ports, terminals, pipelines, etc in the time we decide to have consultation phases.
I remember these same arguments during the government building the trans mountain pipeline.

The flurry of the "it will never get built" posts were astounding.

Yet built it was.
 
A real shit show it was to boot. Cost WAY more than it ever should have amd was the fault of Trudeau and his cabinet. Bad example.

Things have to be paid for.
Sure, but that's just noise.

Key points.

Did people say transmountain would never be built? Yes.

Was it built? Yes.

So you say youthful optimism. I say track record.

This one will have far less obstacles than Transmountain faced, with more backing. BC is on board. Eby, the NDP, on board.

Yet people will still drag out that old tired line of " it may never get built" or "need to see shovels in the ground" or "just because there are shovels in the ground doesn't mean it will be completed" and so on and so forth.

Lets just be happy. Canada has had a good week.
 
And we are getting a pipeline to sell more to the global price than the US markdown.

Go Canada.:cdn:
I do hope that you are right. Since the entire route has already been surveyed they should be able to start the ground preparation work by the end of summer, right?
 
You can choose to put a spin on reality all you want, but this below

Sums it up perfectly
The counter-spin is the Pierre Poilievre is doing nothing demonstrable to move anything forward. #verbingthenoun

Does he get your ire for inaction?
 
The counter-spin is the Pierre Poilievre is doing nothing demonstrable to move anything forward. #verbingthenoun

Does he get your ire for inaction?
What do you need him to do? His party passed bill C5, he wasn't there. He will gladly support the repealing of any of the Trudeau era anti-energy laws
 
What do you need him to do? His party passed bill C5, he wasn't there. He will gladly support the repealing of any of the Trudeau era anti-energy laws
But he’s doing nothing to materially build pipelines.

Words don’t build things, right?


ps. He doesn’t get credit for “passing” bill C-5. The Liberal majority government passed the bill. He and his party simply didn’t vote against it.
 
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