Pipelines, energy and natural resources

[ArmyRick]

The counter-spin is the Pierre Poilievre is doing nothing demonstrable to move anything forward. #verbingthenoun

Does he get your ire for inaction?

I have zero idea why you have that hashtag there. I know what it means

 

[ArmyRick]

But he’s doing nothing to materially build pipelines.

Words don’t build things, right?

Ok, whatever. Your being a clown. He is the leader of the OPPOSITION. FFS. If you thought you were gonna "gotcha" on me, you failed miserably.

His job is to be a government in waiting.
His job is to propose a better way to do things.
His job is to propose alternative solutions.
His job is to criticize and scrutinize every government action and esnure that every dollar is well spent and fully accounted for.
His job is to ensure government is as transparent as can be.

Where has he not done his job?

 

[Good2Golf]

I have zero idea why you have that hashtag there. I know what it means

His MO, including his critique of Carey’s apparent inaction to get anything done energy/pipeline wise.

 

[Good2Golf]

Ok, whatever. Your being a clown. He is the leader of the OPPOSITION. FFS. If you thought you were gonna "gotcha" on me, you failed miserably.

His job is to be a government in waiting.
His job is to propose a better way to do things.
His job is to propose alternative solutions.
His job is to criticize and scrutinize every government action and esnure that every dollar is well spent and fully accounted for.
His job is to ensure government is as transparent as can be.

Where has he not done his job?

Nobody gotchas you but yourself.

 

[ArmyRick]

Nobody gotchas you but yourself.

Thats it?

 

[ArmyRick]

@Good2Golf do you suffer from poilievre derangement syndrome? Or Liberals at all cost syndrome?

 

[Good2Golf]

@Good2Golf do you suffer from poilievre derangement syndrome? Or Liberals at all cost syndrome?

Nope. I did my job holding him accountable to the constituents of Ottawa Carleton riding last year. Anything else is up for card-carrying CPC party members to address, however that ends out. Since you’re a self-identified CPC member, it remains up to you and other CPC members to hold him to account. If you’re happy with him, that’s all good. Glad he’s working for you as a current Conservative.

 

[Altair]

Nope. I did my job holding him accountable to the constituents of Ottawa Carleton riding last year. Anything else is up for card-carrying CPC party members to address, however that ends out. Since you’re a self-identified CPC member, it remains up to you and other CPC members
To hold him to account. If you’re happy with him, that’s all good. Glad he’s working for you as a current Conservsative.

I thank you for your service.

 

[Czech_pivo]

@Good2Golf do you suffer from poilievre derangement syndrome? Or Liberals at all cost syndrome?

I admire your loyalty to PP.
I hope that you’ve had an opportunity to meet him and spend a few mins or more talking with him.

 

[Kirkhill]

"“It’s not always the loudest voices who speak for the rest of us, who want to see our communities uplifted and opportunities for young people,” said Buffalo, referring to a small number of anti-pipeline groups that have dominated the national conversation."

.....

Alberta wins praise for stressing Indigenous support in new pipeline plan

"This is reconcili-action," said the head of the Indian Resource Council. "You're seeing (Indigenous) ownership of infrastructure."

nationalpost.com

"“Alberta’s been by far and away the leader within Canada in fostering partnership between Indigenous and industry groups,” said Restoule.

"Restoule said that then premier Jason Kenney’s creation of the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation (AIOC) in 2019 was a game changer in this respect. The provincial Crown corporation allowed Indigenous groups to take out large government-backed loans and use them to buy equity stakes in major resource projects. She said the AIOC was a workaround the federal Indian Act, which limits the ability of bands to put up reserve land as collateral for loans.

"Stephen Buffalo, the Calgary-based president of the Indian Resource Council, agreed that the Kenney years were a key turning point in Industry-Indigenous relations.

"“They were quite innovative in coming up with financial tools to allow us to participate fully in resource development,” says Buffalo."

....

"“The (AIOC) came about because Jason Kenney engaged with Indigenous leaders and all parties realized that the old, and frankly paternalistic way of doing things restricted nations from getting involved in major resource projects, and seeing the benefits of those projects flow to their communities,” said Restoule.

"As of late 2025, the AIOC had provided more than $745 million in loan guarantees to help 43 Nations buy stakes in nine projects.

"”These investments mean communities are building equity in major infrastructure, creating jobs and generating revenue that can be reinvested into housing, education, infrastructure and services,” said Sawhney in an email to National Post."

....

"Restoule noted that, following immense pressure from pro-resource development Indigenous groups, the Liberal government under former prime minister Justin Trudeau rolled out a parallel federal Indigenous loan guarantee program in 2024."

"She said that, on the whole, Indigenous people are more pro-development than is often assumed, noting that polls show some two-thirds of them support major resource projects."

...


"Buffalo called what’s happened in Alberta an example of reconciliation meeting action.

"“This is reconcili-action. You’re seeing (Indigenous) ownership of infrastructure, you’re seeing communities engaged with services in surrounding areas, and a lot of jobs being created across the board,” said Buffalo.

"Buffalo, who was actively engaged in Alberta’s previous push for a northern pipeline, admitted that he was somewhat disappointed by foregone economic opportunities in northern B.C. and northwestern Alberta.

"A few hours prior to the Calgary announcement, Carney and B.C. Premier David Eby announced that the Trudeau-era ban on northern B.C. heavy oil tanker traffic would be staying in place.

"He nevertheless stressed that Thursday’s announcement was a “good news day” for the opportunities the new pipeline creates.

"Buffalo also noted that the developments will keep multiple liquefied natural gas projects in northwestern B.C. from getting swept up in a debate over removing a ban on oil tankers.

"“It’s not always the loudest voices who speak for the rest of us, who want to see our communities uplifted and opportunities for young people,” said Buffalo, referring to a small number of anti-pipeline groups that have dominated the national conversation."

...

....

More projects with more buy-in from more potential supporters resulting in fewer opponents ... and David Eby running out of time.
....

A change in government and more indigenous investors could still see the Valemount - Kitimat Northern Leg of the TMX brought back into play.
The new line will pass through Valemount as well. And after they have got the North Coast Transmission Line and the Prince Rupert Gas Transmission Line built, as well as the Coastal Gas Link, there will be fewer reasons to oppose adding an oil pipeline along that developing Energy Corridor.

'Northern Leg' to B.C. coast could be built off existing Trans Mountain pipeline, sources say

A long-shelved proposal to build a northern branch off the Trans Mountain pipeline system to the northern British Columbia coast is attracting renewed interest as t…

calgaryherald.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ruh roh...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2073123912125136904

 

[lenaitch]

"“It’s not always the loudest voices who speak for the rest of us, who want to see our communities uplifted and opportunities for young people,” said Buffalo, referring to a small number of anti-pipeline groups that have dominated the national conversation."

.....

Alberta wins praise for stressing Indigenous support in new pipeline plan

"This is reconcili-action," said the head of the Indian Resource Council. "You're seeing (Indigenous) ownership of infrastructure."

nationalpost.com

"“Alberta’s been by far and away the leader within Canada in fostering partnership between Indigenous and industry groups,” said Restoule.

"Restoule said that then premier Jason Kenney’s creation of the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation (AIOC) in 2019 was a game changer in this respect. The provincial Crown corporation allowed Indigenous groups to take out large government-backed loans and use them to buy equity stakes in major resource projects. She said the AIOC was a workaround the federal Indian Act, which limits the ability of bands to put up reserve land as collateral for loans.

"Stephen Buffalo, the Calgary-based president of the Indian Resource Council, agreed that the Kenney years were a key turning point in Industry-Indigenous relations.

"“They were quite innovative in coming up with financial tools to allow us to participate fully in resource development,” says Buffalo."

....

"“The (AIOC) came about because Jason Kenney engaged with Indigenous leaders and all parties realized that the old, and frankly paternalistic way of doing things restricted nations from getting involved in major resource projects, and seeing the benefits of those projects flow to their communities,” said Restoule.

"As of late 2025, the AIOC had provided more than $745 million in loan guarantees to help 43 Nations buy stakes in nine projects.

"”These investments mean communities are building equity in major infrastructure, creating jobs and generating revenue that can be reinvested into housing, education, infrastructure and services,” said Sawhney in an email to National Post."

....

"Restoule noted that, following immense pressure from pro-resource development Indigenous groups, the Liberal government under former prime minister Justin Trudeau rolled out a parallel federal Indigenous loan guarantee program in 2024."

"She said that, on the whole, Indigenous people are more pro-development than is often assumed, noting that polls show some two-thirds of them support major resource projects."

...


"Buffalo called what’s happened in Alberta an example of reconciliation meeting action.

"“This is reconcili-action. You’re seeing (Indigenous) ownership of infrastructure, you’re seeing communities engaged with services in surrounding areas, and a lot of jobs being created across the board,” said Buffalo.

"Buffalo, who was actively engaged in Alberta’s previous push for a northern pipeline, admitted that he was somewhat disappointed by foregone economic opportunities in northern B.C. and northwestern Alberta.

"A few hours prior to the Calgary announcement, Carney and B.C. Premier David Eby announced that the Trudeau-era ban on northern B.C. heavy oil tanker traffic would be staying in place.

"He nevertheless stressed that Thursday’s announcement was a “good news day” for the opportunities the new pipeline creates.

"Buffalo also noted that the developments will keep multiple liquefied natural gas projects in northwestern B.C. from getting swept up in a debate over removing a ban on oil tankers.

"“It’s not always the loudest voices who speak for the rest of us, who want to see our communities uplifted and opportunities for young people,” said Buffalo, referring to a small number of anti-pipeline groups that have dominated the national conversation."

...

....

More projects with more buy-in from more potential supporters resulting in fewer opponents ... and David Eby running out of time.
....

A change in government and more indigenous investors could still see the Valemount - Kitimat Northern Leg of the TMX brought back into play.
The new line will pass through Valemount as well. And after they have got the North Coast Transmission Line and the Prince Rupert Gas Transmission Line built, as well as the Coastal Gas Link, there will be fewer reasons to oppose adding an oil pipeline along that developing Energy Corridor.

'Northern Leg' to B.C. coast could be built off existing Trans Mountain pipeline, sources say

A long-shelved proposal to build a northern branch off the Trans Mountain pipeline system to the northern British Columbia coast is attracting renewed interest as t…

calgaryherald.com

One problem is clarifying who the government's 'duty to consult' is with or, in other words, who speaks for the First Nations? Logic would dicate that it is the heirs of the people who signed the treaties; the chiefs of the various bands involved.

This further complicated in those areas where there are no treaties. Elected Chiefs? Hereditary Chiefs? Representative approval? 100% consensus of every nation?

Modern day councils. regional assemblies, provincial assemblies, etc. get most of the media space.

 

[Kirkhill]

One problem is clarifying who the government's 'duty to consult' is with or, in other words, who speaks for the First Nations? Logic would dicate that it is the heirs of the people who signed the treaties; the chiefs of the various bands involved.

This further complicated in those areas where there are no treaties. Elected Chiefs? Hereditary Chiefs? Representative approval? 100% consensus of every nation?

Modern day councils. regional assemblies, provincial assemblies, etc. get most of the media space.

The other side of the table is no better.

Federal or provincial? Bureaucrat, politician or judge? Activists or media? The government of the day or yesterday's government?

And what is the cause du jour snd the price of oil?

And we seek enduring settlements?

....

Just take a look at labour relations and consider how long a settlement lasts. Or how long a court judgement endures.

That, ultimately, is the rationale for the parliamentary system, psrliamentary sovereignty and parliamentary supremacy.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ruh roh...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2073123912125136904

I believe the existing traffic through the Straits of Juan de Fuca to both the Anacortes-Bellingham refineries and Burnaby maxes out at the 800,000 barrel Aframax currently docking at Burnaby.

 

[YZT580]

I believe the existing traffic through the Straits of Juan de Fuca to both the Anacortes-Bellingham refineries and Burnaby maxes out at the 800,000 barrel Aframax currently docking at Burnaby.

for draught through the Strait or are those docking limitations that could be changed provided environment Canada allows the dredging

 

[Kirkhill]

for draught through the Strait or are those docking limitations that could be changed provided environment Canada allows the dredging

I don't know about the physical limitations. They could just be based on wharf lengths. But the existing traffic seems to be Aframax and smaller.

And, at Roberts Bank / Tsawassen Ferry Terminal, the Ferries seem to have difficulty manoeuvering without going into US territorial waters.

I struggle to see how a ULCC that is 4 times the length of a ferry would work in those waters.

 

[YZT580]

I don't know about the physical limitations. They could just be based on wharf lengths. But the existing traffic seems to be Aframax and smaller.

And, at Roberts Bank / Tsawassen Ferry Terminal, the Ferries seem to have difficulty manoeuvering without going into US territorial waters.

I struggle to see how a ULCC that is 4 times the length of a ferry would work in those waters.

remains to be seen then whether we have a barrier or simply an obstacle.

 

[lenaitch]

The other side of the table is no better.

Federal or provincial? Bureaucrat, politician or judge? Activists or media? The government of the day or yesterday's government?

And what is the cause du jour snd the price of oil?

And we seek enduring settlements?

....

Just take a look at labour relations and consider how long a settlement lasts. Or how long a court judgement endures.

That, ultimately, is the rationale for the parliamentary system, psrliamentary sovereignty and parliamentary supremacy.

At least 'our side' has a little bit more clarity. The treaties (where they exist) are with the Crown, and the Crown is represented by either the federal government or a province according to the Charter (I don't think municipalities have devolved authority but I doubt it has been tested).

When the AFN or similar body takes a position, I think the government (and media but who am I kidding) should politely ignore them unless they can establish that they officially speak for whoever they represent. Of course they won't because obfuscation and politics are just as strong on the FN side.

 

[Kirkhill]

At least 'our side' has a little bit more clarity. The treaties (where they exist) are with the Crown, and the Crown is represented by either the federal government or a province according to the Charter (I don't think municipalities have devolved authority but I doubt it has been tested).

When the AFN or similar body takes a position, I think the government (and media but who am I kidding) should politely ignore them unless they can establish that they officially speak for whoever they represent. Of course they won't because obfuscation and politics are just as strong on the FN side.

Our side is only as clear as the current administration wants it to be, current meaning the government of the day and not necessarily today's government.

Obfuscation, as you suggest, is not limited to either side.

...

You know, given how much time lawyers spend protesting about the need for precision in language they seem to spend a lot of time making words less useful.

 

[brihard]

Our side is only as clear as the current administration wants it to be, current meaning the government of the day and not necessarily today's government.

Obfuscation, as you suggest, is not limited to either side.

...

You know, given how much time lawyers spend protesting about the need for precision in language they seem to spend a lot of time making words less useful.

No, ‘our side’ is crystal clear. Duty to consult is borne by the ‘crown’, full stop. That’s the federal or provincial executives due to our system of ‘responsible government’ where those executives act on the crown’s behalf. Formally through the GG/LGs. None of the rest of your list has any constitutional responsibility. That does not mean that any of those others may not feel political pressure if they have institutionally in ways that are held to run counter to the spirit of reconciliation, but that’s not a constitutional duty to consult issue. While the extent of duty to consult remains debated, who bears the duty is not.

for draught through the Strait or are those docking limitations that could be changed provided environment Canada allows the dredging

Depth in the channel / Burrard inlet is an issue. They haven’t been able to bring out fully loaded Aframaxes, however dredging was approved earlier this year that should allow that. But that’s about as good as the existing terminal will get. VLCC necessitates an ocean terminal.