Pipelines

[Czech_pivo]

why Sarnia? If your destination is Montreal it would seem better to run from Sudbury down the Ottawa river valley rather than backtracking around Georgian Bay. Then use the UL/ZR line to feed southern Ontario. Either that or its the fleet of ice capable tankers from a Lakehead terminus to the Sarnia terminus whilst everyone argues over the environmental impact of the northern pipeline route.

So what do you propose happens to Sarnia and all its refinery capability? The goal should be to shut down Line 5 and remove any sort of US interference with our refinery capability in Ontario. Just as long as Sarnia has a dedicated feed to it, all within Canada, I don't care how it get's done.

 

[YZT580]

So what do you propose happens to Sarnia and all its refinery capability? The goal should be to shut down Line 5 and remove any sort of US interference with our refinery capability in Ontario. Just as long as Sarnia has a dedicated feed to it, all within Canada, I don't care how it get's done.

As stated, use Sarnia for all of southern Ontario and exporting refined products to Michigan if you can; I believe that is what it is used for now. It doesn't make sense to drive a pipeline through the Muskokas if you don't have to. It is all rock and small lakes. One reason they avoided railway construction until well into the 20th century

 

[Czech_pivo]

As stated, use Sarnia for all of southern Ontario and exporting refined products to Michigan if you can; I believe that is what it is used for now. It doesn't make sense to drive a pipeline through the Muskokas if you don't have to. It is all rock and small lakes. One reason they avoided railway construction until well into the 20th century

Understood.
They should shut down the pipeline across the UP and across the Strait of Mackinac and only maintain it from Sarnia going IN to Port Huron and throughout the rest of the lower peninsula, metro Detroit.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Give a Hudson Bay outlet as well.

why Sarnia? If your destination is Montreal it would seem better to run from Sudbury down the Ottawa river valley rather than backtracking around Georgian Bay. Then use the UL/ZR line to feed southern Ontario. Either that or its the fleet of ice capable tankers from a Lakehead terminus to the Sarnia terminus whilst everyone argues over the environmental impact of the northern pipeline route.

Line 5 supplies Sarnia because that's where we refine and distribute to supply Ontario. Montreal serves as the end of Line 5 and a shipping port. Line 5 does not exist, strictly to supply the Montreal shipping facility. It is simply the end of the line. There are lots of customers before it get to Quebec.

We don't refine for Michigan. Once it gets to Sarnia it stays on the Canadian side.

Enbridge Line 5 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[YZT580]

Line 5 supplies Sarnia because that's where we refine and distribute to supply Ontario. Montreal serves as the end of Line 5 and a shipping port. Line 5 does not exist, strictly to supply the Montreal shipping facility. It is simply the end of the line. There are lots of customers before it get to Quebec.

We don't refine for Michigan. Once it gets to Sarnia it stays on the Canadian side.

View attachment 95032

Enbridge Line 5 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

and you are saying that Sarnia can't become the end of the line and simply reverse the flow out of Montreal? that implies that Sarnia is shipping finished product eastbound. OK.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Understood.
They should shut down the pipeline across the UP and across the Strait of Mackinac and only maintain it from Sarnia going IN to Port Huron and throughout the rest of the lower peninsula, metro Detroit.

Just leave the existing line for Michigan. They can decide whatever to do with it. If we have a replacement going over the Superior Lakehead, the US can't threaten it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Just leave the existing line for Michigan. They can decide whatever to do with it. If we have a replacement going over the Superior Lakehead, the US can't threaten it.

Understand.
But why keep the risk of the pipeline under the Strait of Mackinac rupturing? The pipeline across the UP is more than likely a non-positive revenue generator - there no major or even minor cities or industry there. Shut it down, remove the risk of rupture. Reverse the flow from Port Huron to Sarnia to be Sarnia to Port Huron and continue to service all of the lower peninsula of Michigan.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Pipelines

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Hydrocarbon Pipelines

As recent history makes clear, Canada is one of the world’s premier climate villains.

niche-canada.org

Shut down the portion from Duluth to the Straits of Mackinac, Michigan.

 

[Kirkhill]

From a 2013 article on Energy East about converting existing under utilized gas lines and converting them to oil.

The TransCanada Energy East project proposes converting 1865 miles of the natural gas Mainline system and constructing 870 miles of new pipeline to deliver at least 500 Mb/d of crude oil to eastern Canada from Alberta. The pipeline conversion could solve two problems. It would bump up tariff revenues on the huge 7 Bcf/d Mainline that has been sucking air for years (it only moved 2.4 Bcf/d in 2012). And it would provide a route to Eastern markets for rising production volumes of landlocked Canadian crude. Today in the first of a two part series we examine prospects for this project.

PS - presumably the 500 Mb/d should actually be 0.5 Mbpd or 500,000 bpd. Alberta production is 4 Mbpd.

https://rbnenergy.com/what-becomes-of-the-empty-pipelines

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/energy-east-pipeline-northeastern-ontario-election-1.7498241

There are three pipes in the Trans Canada Pipeline corridor at Cochrane. From Cochrane they run south to North Bay.

If one of those lines were converted to oil you could feed Sarnia.
If one of them were diverted to feed an LNG facility at Moosonee you could fill another line.
If you needed another pipe in the corridor the right of way has already been approved, validated and verified through 75 years of service.

If Quebec wants in they would be welcome. But both oil and gas should get to salt water as soon as possible, either in Manitoba or Ontario or both.

After all BC hasn't limited itself to one LNG port for its natural gas nor to one port for its coal. And it has a small oil port.

Coal Ports

• Roberts Bank at Vancouver
• Ridley Island at Prince Rupert

Natural Gas Ports

• Natural Gas Liquids from Prince Rupert
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Kitimat (2 phases and 1 independent)
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Squamish
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Gingolx upriver from Lax Kw'alaams and Prince Rupert
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Delta at Vancouver

Oil Ports

- Western Canadian Shale from Burnaby at Vancouver.

BC serves its own needs well.

Why not have terminals at Churchill, Nelson and Moosonee?

 

[lenaitch]

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Pipelines

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Hydrocarbon Pipelines

As recent history makes clear, Canada is one of the world’s premier climate villains.

niche-canada.org

Shut down the portion from Duluth to the Straits of Mackinac, Michigan.

If we found an alternative, as the kids say these days, 'that sounds like a them problem'.

From a 2013 article on Energy East about converting existing under utilized gas lines and converting them to oil.

View attachment 95033View attachment 95035



PS - presumably the 500 Mb/d should actually be 0.5 Mbpd or 500,000 bpd. Alberta production is 4 Mbpd.

https://rbnenergy.com/what-becomes-of-the-empty-pipelines

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/energy-east-pipeline-northeastern-ontario-election-1.7498241

There are three pipes in the Trans Canada Pipeline corridor at Cochrane. From Cochrane they run south to North Bay.

If one of those lines were converted to oil you could feed Sarnia.
If one of them were diverted to feed an LNG facility at Moosonee you could fill another line.
If you needed another pipe in the corridor the right of way has already been approved, validated and verified through 75 years of service.

If Quebec wants in they would be welcome. But both oil and gas should get to salt water as soon as possible, either in Manitoba or Ontario or both.

Major enroute community opposition when that was first floated. Here in North Bay, the line cuts through the city and skirts the lake that is the sole source of municipal water.

 

[Kirkhill]

If we found an alternative, as the kids say these days, 'that sounds like a them problem'.



Major enroute community opposition when that was first floated. Here in North Bay, the line cuts through the city and skirts the lake that is the sole source of municipal water.

Bill 5! Bill C5! Problem solved. Twice over.