Platoon warrant disregarding chits

[bisonmedic]

Regarding the whole boot issue thing, here in Pet, it is a supply issue, not a medical issue. Supply must give you proper fitting boots . The new Mk 3 boots have 72 different sizes for issue, they get mixed reviews, but people who have orthotics can fit them better in this boot. It's a start, but more could be done.
If you want a boot that feels better on the feet, you ask the CoC and request permission to wear them, out of you're own pocket. The MO/PA will not write you a chit for Magnums, Danners, or any other boot unless you have an extra large foot, extra small foot, or your orthotics cannot be fitted properly to the Mk 3.

 

[armyvern]

Regarding the whole boot issue thing, here in Pet, it is a supply issue, not a medical issue. Supply must give you proper fitting boots . The new Mk 3 boots have 72 different sizes for issue, they get mixed reviews, but people who have orthotics can fit them better in this boot. It's a start, but more could be done.
If you want a boot that feels better on the feet, you ask the CoC and request permission to wear them, out of you're own pocket. The MO/PA will not write you a chit for Magnums, Danners, or any other boot unless you have an extra large foot, extra small foot, or your orthotics cannot be fitted properly to the Mk 3.

I suggest that you read this whole thread.

SIZE = Supply resp -- if you do not fit into standard stocked sizes then it is a Supply issue & NO chit is required.

Orthotics/Vibrams = Medical/physio chit IS required for purchase & IF you have that chit, then the Supply system will get you boots to accomodate & conform with that chit ON BEHALF OF the medical system. They will also cover the costs for that footwear as, with a CHIT, is IS medically prescribed & authorized.

And no, MOs CAN NOT "prescribe" you a specific type boot (Danner, Magnum etc) ... but the reasons for that are also stated in this thread already. And that non-ability to prescribe a specific boot-manufacturer type is based on MEDICAL direction from NDHQ.

Don't confuse the two issues. The footwear policy is national (that includes Pet) ... and that policy in the books and it's references are also already posted in this thread. I suggest more reading for you.

 

[bisonmedic]

Just to clear things up here, I know that people require chits for orthotics and different insoles, that's why I send them to physio. There has been a change in the policy with regards to the boots, we have the document at the CDU if one has questions about it. The base gets billed for all the non issued boots that are required, that's why the new Mk 3 was made with all its sizes, so it would cover the use of orthotics. As I stated before, you will not get a chit for different boots unless you have major foot problems or you have feet too big/too small for the issued sizes of Mk 3.  Again, if you want different boots, and your CoC has no heartache about it, then you can buy them out of your own pocket. This info does come from Ottawa. I deal with this situation everyday as a medic, my reading ability is just fine thank you.

 

[armyvern]

Just to clear things up here, I know that people require chits for orthotics and different insoles, that's why I send them to physio. There has been a change in the policy with regards to the boots, we have the document at the CDU if one has questions about it. The base gets billed for all the non issued boots that are required, that's why the new Mk 3 was made with all its sizes, so it would cover the use of orthotics. As I stated before, you will not get a chit for different boots unless you have major foot problems or you have feet too big/too small for the issued sizes of Mk 3.  Again, if you want different boots, and your CoC has no heartache about it, then you can buy them out of your own pocket. This info does come from Ottawa. I deal with this situation everyday as a medic, my reading ability is just fine thank you.

The "new MkIII" (which the cbt boot GP you are referring to is NOT by the way ---) was constructed on the same size basis as the WW Boot. The construction of the Boot GP had ZERO to do with accomodating orthotics. The removable inserts that come in both the WW Boots and the Boots, GP do allow MORE people with orthotics to be accomodated in them though. But their design and manufacture had SQUAT to do with orthotics.
Footwear policy has ALWAYS stated (and it's in this thread too) that all pers reporting with chits for orthotics are to first be fitted into stocked footwear to see if that footwear can accomodate their particular orthotic.

If that stocked footwear can NOT accomodate the orthotics, their chit is THEN used as the purchasing authority to buy boots for medical purpose to accomodate that orthotic. No chit?? What medical authority do we have? No chit?? No Crown monies will pay --

I agree: If someone JUST WANTS different boots, and their CoC is OK with it ... then they can buy out of their own pocket, BUT that IS NOT what we are talking about here is it??

Change this:

Again, if you want different boots, and your CoC has no heartache about it, then you can buy them out of your own pocket. This info does come from Ottawa. I deal with this situation everyday as a medic, my reading ability is just fine thank you.

to this:

Again, if you want different need boots to accomodate your medically issued orthotics, and your CoC has no heartache about it, then you can The Crown is responsible tobuy them out of your own pocketfor you upon presentation of your medical chit which authorizes their purchase for you based on that medical need. This info does come from Ottawa. I deal with this situation everyday as a medic Sup Tech purchasing footwear for persons who medically require it on behalf of the medical system.

Keep reading.

There is a differtence between WANT and NEED; you seem to be mixing them up. YOU issue the orthotics?? Then YOU write the chit so that buddy CAN have the boots purchased for him downtown if his orthotics do not fit into stocked ones. Just like when you write a prescription -- or are you having patients pay for those too these days?? It's the exact same thing -- only it's for an orthotic.

Or are you really in the habit wherever you are of issuing people things they must wear in their footwear, but then making them buy their own footwear in order to be able to follow that medical directive? AND, if that's the case where you are -- just how then -- are those soldiers getting the chits that they bring in to clothing there in Petawawa (because they are -- obviously NOT from you though)?? I think that you need to sort out the difference between WANT and NEED -- because those that NEED them should BE BEING LOOKED AFTER by the system -- that's in the books.

 

[bisonmedic]

First off, we do not make people but their own orthotics, we send them to physio for that ( I did mention that ), Secondly, I did say that there would be people that do not fit the new boots, supply will find a solution for that. The Mk 3 was purchased to help fit orthotics.(I do believe that was mentioned to) You seem to be confused on this matter, I never said we "issue" orthotics, that item is Rx only, you can issue generic insole though. At no time did I argue the point of stock boots first to fit orthotics, never mentioned it in fact. There is no confusion on need or want, just you confusing what I have said. Please read more clearly the words I have put down.

 

[armyvern]

As I stated before, you will not get a chit for different boots unless you have major foot problems or you have feet too big/too small for the issued sizes of Mk 3.

Absolutely untrue.

If they have feet too big/too small to fit in stocked sizes -- that is NOT a medical issue and no chit is required for boots to be purchased for those soldiers -- that is a "special-size" (non-standard size) requirement and is a whole 'nother process which does not involve the medical side of the house at all. That's also addressed in this very thread.

 

[armyvern]

First off, we do not make people but their own orthotics, we send them to physio for that ( I did mention that ), Secondly, I did say that there would be people that do not fit the new boots, supply will find a solution for that. The Mk 3 was purchased to help fit orthotics.(I do believe that was mentioned to) You seem to be confused on this matter, I never said we "issue" orthotics, that item is Rx only, you can issue generic insole though. At no time did I argue the point of stock boots first to fit orthotics, never mentioned it in fact. There is no confusion on need or want, just you confusing what I have said. Please read more clearly the words I have put down.

Ref the bold: I'll say this one more time ... NO they were NOT. Boots, GP are NOT the replacements for the MkIII combat boot, nor were they purchased to help accomodate orthotics. Period.

Your words:

Again, if you want different boots,

Regarding the whole boot issue thing, here in Pet, it is a supply issue, not a medical issue.

Bullshit. People who don't fit into stocked sizes (and who don't wear orthotics) are a Supply issue.
People who don't fit into stocked sizes because of ORTHOTICS are a MEDICAL issue ... EVEN in Petawawa.

And, I realize that you don't make people buy their own orthotics, I never said that you did. They are prescribed. I said that "they are just like a prescription" ... but if you aren't giving them that chit saying they have been "prescribed orthotics (ie requires boots to accomodate orthotics) ... they are paying for their boots themselves ... and that's bullshit.

 

[bisonmedic]

You really do not get do you, as I stated  before, supply must provide boots, period. If the mbr has a condition that requires different footwear, a specialist will get involved. Twisting my words to fit your story does not work. Never did I mention people having the big or small feet were wearing orthotics, just said big or small, orthotics are another matter. And regarding the issue of people paying for the boots, that's up to them, we do not make people pay for them if they have orthotics and have a foot specialists chit. That is outside of base medical staff. It seems no matter how I explain, it all gets messed up by misunderstanding. Try slowing down and read carefully. No matter, I would be wasting my breath on you trying to dumb it down any further, good luck.

 

[armyvern]

You really do not get do you, as I stated  before, supply must provide boots, period. If the mbr has a condition that requires different footwear, a specialist will get involved. Twisting my words to fit your story does not work. Never did I mention people having the big or small feet were wearing orthotics, just said big or small, orthotics are another matter. And regarding the issue of people paying for the boots, that's up to them, we do not make people pay for them if they have orthotics and have a foot specialists chit. That is outside of base medical staff. It seems no matter how I explain, it all gets messed up by misunderstanding. Try slowing down and read carefully. No matter, I would be wasting my breath on you trying to dumb it down any further, good luck.

Twisting your words?? Re-read your posts.

Here's where you began ...

Regarding the whole boot issue thing, here in Pet, it is a supply issue, not a medical issue. Supply must give you proper fitting boots . The new Mk 3 boots have 72 different sizes for issue, they get mixed reviews, but people who have orthotics can fit them better in this boot. It's a start, but more could be done.
If you want a boot that feels better on the feet, you ask the CoC and request permission to wear them, out of you're own pocket. The MO/PA will not write you a chit for Magnums, Danners, or any other boot unless you have an extra large foot, extra small foot, or your orthotics cannot be fitted properly to the Mk 3.

I said: Bullshit. Size is a Supply issue, that I agree with. Pers who wear orthotics however ARE NOT a supply issue. We WILL buy them boots to accomodate thier orthotics on behalf of the medical system PROVIDED they have that chit that MEDICAL CHIT that authorizes them to wear those orthotics. That IS a MEDICAL issue. Two different policies -- two different issues, only one of which is a Supply issue.

I also said (for the first time) the boots, GP ARE NOT the replacements for the MkIIIs, nor was their design based upon anything to do with orthotics.

I also said: "And no, MOs CAN NOT "prescribe" you a specific type boot (Danner, Magnum etc) ... but the reasons for that are also stated in this thread already. And that non-ability to prescribe a specific boot-manufacturer type is based on MEDICAL direction from NDHQ." BUT, they sure as hell CAN write you a chit that says "requires boots to accomodate orthotics."

Here's that other part from you: "If you want a boot that feels better on the feet, " which is where I pointed out the difference between NEED & WANT. We are NOT discussing WANT in this thread ... we are discussing NEED ... and that NEED occurs when they are prescribed orthotics -- at which time they SHOULD be getting the chit that says so which THEN authorizes us in Sup to go buy their boots downtown for them if we have to.

Next from you, we get this (speaking of putting words in someone's mouth ... ):

First off, we do not make people but their own orthotics, we send them to physio for that ( I did mention that ), Secondly, I did say that there would be people that do not fit the new boots, supply will find a solution for that. The Mk 3 was purchased to help fit orthotics.(I do believe that was mentioned to) You seem to be confused on this matter, I never said we "issue" orthotics, that item is Rx only, you can issue generic insole though. At no time did I argue the point of stock boots first to fit orthotics, never mentioned it in fact. There is no confusion on need or want, just you confusing what I have said. Please read more clearly the words I have put down.

I pointed out that I never said people had to buy their own orthotics ... I said that if you AREN'T writing that chit, then WE are NOT authorized to buy those boots for them ... as purchasing boots to accomodate orthotics is a MEDICAL issue, thus medical authority (via that chit) IS required. No authority = no boots purchased.

And, I pointed out (for the second time) that the boots, GP are NOT the replacement for the combat boot MkIII (it's replacement is STILL in development), nor were the boots G.P. and their 72 sizes, or their removeable inserts manufactured in any way, shape, or form "purchased to help fit orthotics", as you have stated. That's bullshit.

And, ref your comment about me bringing up too big/too small etc and this comment

At no time did I argue the point of stock boots first to fit orthotics, never mentioned it in fact.

. See the first quote from you above. I simply distinguished bewteen SIZE requirements for LPO and MEDICAL requirements for LPO ... as you flat-out wrongly stated that the medical world would write them a chit if they "have an extra large foot, extra small foot." <--- too big/too small a foot = NO CHIT required -- this IS a Supply matter (and again ... already adressed in this thread).

Now, regarding this latest post:

You really do not get do you, as I stated  before, supply must provide boots, period. If the mbr has a condition that requires different footwear, a specialist will get involved. Twisting my words to fit your story does not work. Never did I mention people having the big or small feet were wearing orthotics, just said big or small, orthotics are another matter. And regarding the issue of people paying for the boots, that's up to them, we do not make people pay for them if they have orthotics and have a foot specialists chit. That is outside of base medical staff. It seems no matter how I explain, it all gets messed up by misunderstanding. Try slowing down and read carefully. No matter, I would be wasting my breath on you trying to dumb it down any further, good luck.

You should try reading carefully. You certainly don't have to waste your breath on me (more like vice versa) ... I've tried my best to dumb it down enough for you to understand ... with all your TI and expertise at writing chits for orthotics (just how many of them HAVE you ever written??) ... or is it physio that actually does that when you refer people there (this is indeed a sarcastic remark and should be taken as such ...  :)?? I've yet to see a chit from an MO or a physiotherapist with a JNCM's signature on it as authority, but maybe you are that special exception. And yeah, I guess with more time spent in the actual purchasing of footwear and dealing with those medical footwear chits than you have in service ... I MUST need it dumbed down.

Whatever.

 

[old medic]

I suggest everyone take time off from this thread until tomorrow morning.
We should be concentrating on fact of policy, and not he said she said.