Political impacts of Ukraine war

[HavokFour]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Trump says he had 'very productive' call with Putin ahead of Zelenskiy meeting

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Sunday he had "a good and very productive" phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin before his meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in Florida later in the day.

www.reuters.com

 

[Good2Golf]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Trump says he had 'very productive' call with Putin ahead of Zelenskiy meeting

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Sunday he had "a good and very productive" phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin before his meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in Florida later in the day.

www.reuters.com

And related, the details of the in play 20 point piece plan proposal are brought in. Interesting that 4.10. It appears the US will have a free trade agreement with Russia. Take that Canada in Mexico!

The 20-point peace proposal Zelenskiy will discuss with Trump

These are the 20 points that Trump and Zelenskiy are expected to discuss.

www.reuters.com

 

[HavokFour]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Trump says he had 'very productive' call with Putin ahead of Zelenskiy meeting

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Sunday he had "a good and very productive" phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin before his meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in Florida later in the day.

www.reuters.com

And the results of that call, according to the Kremlin.

Putin and Trump do not support European-Ukrainian temporary ceasefire idea, the Kremlin says

The Kremlin said on Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump do not support a European-Ukrainian push for a temporary ceasefire ahead of a settlement, and that Moscow thinks Kyiv needs to make a decision on Donbas.

www.reuters.com

 

[Good2Golf]

Maybe FIFA will take back Trump’s peace prize?

 

[Brad Sallows]

And related, the details of the in play 20 point piece plan proposal are brought in. Interesting that 4.10. It appears the US will have a free trade agreement with Russia. Take that Canada in Mexico!

Fat lot of good it will do. Shortly after signing, Trump will put a 50% tariff on caviar.

 

[The Bread Guy]

And the results of that call, according to the Kremlin.

Putin and Trump do not support European-Ukrainian temporary ceasefire idea, the Kremlin says

The Kremlin said on Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump do not support a European-Ukrainian push for a temporary ceasefire ahead of a settlement, and that Moscow thinks Kyiv needs to make a decision on Donbas.

www.reuters.com

Specifically, from the Kremlin info-machine (statement text attached) ....

... Most significantly, the Russian and US presidents share a broadly similar view that the temporary ceasefire proposed by Ukraine and Europe – under the pretext of preparing for a referendum or other such measures – would merely prolong the conflict and risk a renewed escalation on the battlefield. A definitive cessation of hostilities requires, first and foremost, a bold and responsible political decision from Kiev, one that aligns with the ongoing discussions through the Russian-American channel. Given the evolving situation on the front lines, it would be in the Ukrainian regime’s interest to make such a decision regarding Donbass without further delay ...

BOHICA ....

 

[Eaglelord17]

I feel so bad for Zelensky. He has to do what he has to do with Trump, but this is like if the President of Poland had to listen to Churchill go on about how good Hitler is and how he only has the best interests of Poland at heart.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I feel so bad for Zelensky. He has to do what he has to do with Trump, but this is like if the President of Poland had to listen to Churchill go on about how good Hitler is and how he only has the best interests of Poland at heart.

Hey, hey, hey, what's with the negative waves? The U.S. is offering security guarantees, right?

US offers Ukraine 15-year security guarantee as part of peace plan, Zelenskyy says

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The United States is offering Ukraine security guarantees for a period of 15 years as part of a proposed peace plan, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

Just like trade deals, I'm sure that'll be followed to the letter. For the record, here's UKR media's sharing of the 20 points:

Zelensky reveals full 20-point peace plan draft backed by Ukraine, US

After weeks of talks, Ukraine and the U.S. have prepared a draft of the revised peace plan to end Russia’s full-scale war. The initial 28-point plan, which effectively pushed Ukraine toward capitulation, has been reworked into a 20-point framework, which President Volodymyr Zelensky presented...

kyivindependent.com

Also archived here.

Late add: here's what the ask reportedly was, so UKR got a "deal" deal.
"Zelenskiy Asked Trump for 50-Year Ukraine Security Guarantee"

 

[YZT580]

I feel so bad for Zelensky. He has to do what he has to do with Trump, but this is like if the President of Poland had to listen to Churchill go on about how good Hitler is and how he only has the best interests of Poland at heart.

except I think it was Chamberlain with his peace for our time statement and not Churchill. I wonder how Zelensky manages to maintain his primarily positive attitude towards the guy who keeps pulling the rug out from under him? The man is amazing.

 

[Rifleman62]

I don't (but I do) know where Trump gets 91% of Ukraine want peace. Last week or so it was 82%.
Trump backstabbed Ukraine via consulting with Putin hours before the Zelinsky meeting.
It must be extremely difficult for Zelinsky to stoke Trump's ego while Trump is selling him out.
A fucking disgrace, Sell out ukraine to make money.

Press Conference: Zelensky’s Face Said It All (Analysis)

 

[Eaglelord17]

except I think it was Chamberlain with his peace for our time statement and not Churchill. I wonder how Zelensky manages to maintain his primarily positive attitude towards the guy who keeps pulling the rug out from under him? The man is amazing.

He doesn’t have a choice. He needs US support to keep fighting. Trump pulled that once already and it had huge consequences.

Europe can’t support them, if they started building up day one of the invasion they would have been able to, but they didn’t. Now it’s US support or nothing.

 

[Brad Sallows]

50 years or 15 or 5 or 5 months. Doesn't matter. "Security guarantee" is an entanglement subject to future presidents and Congresses and, ultimately, US voters. Only membership in NATO will do, and if it can't get that, Ukraine is stuck in the position of having to beg for commitments.

Other countries can always step up if people think the US is jerking Ukraine around too much.

 

[Kirkhill]

50 years or 15 or 5 or 5 months. Doesn't matter. "Security guarantee" is an entanglement subject to future presidents and Congresses and, ultimately, US voters. Only membership in NATO will do, and if it can't get that, Ukraine is stuck in the position of having to beg for commitments.

Other countries can always step up if people think the US is jerking Ukraine around too much.

How useful do you think Article 5 really would be?

Southwest Europe already sees things differently than Northeast Europe. Add in the various communist parties, fascist parties and isolationists and then ask:

If we gave a party on Ellesmere Island would anybody come?

Nothing lasts beyond today's crisis.

 

[Brad Sallows]

How useful do you think Article 5 really would be?

Depends who's calling the marker in, and what their beef is.

 

[OldSolduer]

A fucking disgrace, Sell out ukraine to make money.

Much like IBM, Henry Ford and others with the Nazis.

 

[HavokFour]

For such a large attack (91 drones, all shot down), is it not strange they also refuse to provide any evidence it occurred? Not a single video or picture of wreckage anywhere, meanwhile we regularly get proof of strikes on targets in the middle of nowhere in Russia.

Alleged drone attack on a Putin residence offers the Kremlin a timely narrative shift

Russia’s sudden accusation should be seen as “perfectly timed theater,” one analyst told NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

US NATO envoy casts doubt on Russian claim that Ukraine attacked Putin’s residence

U.S. ambassador to NATO Matthew Whitaker cast doubt on Tuesday on Russia’s accusation that Ukraine attacked President Vladimir Putin’s residence, saying he wants to see U.S. intelligence on the incident.

www.reuters.com

 

[Rifleman62]

Don't know why Trump trusts Putin other than money (business deals) which he will soon find out is costly with all the corruption in Russia.

BEN HODGES: Putin FEARS one thing — European ground forces in Ukraine​