Preserving Army Fleets

[PrairieFella]

Noah Gairn has mentioned a couple times that there may be some major fleet divestments coming - he's talking LUVW (no surprise), MSVS Milcot and surprisingly, TAPV. All three at once would absolutely kneecap 2 Div, representing most of their vehicles.

 

[MJP]

Generally starting divestment paperwork doesn't mean a fleet is going away anytime soon. It is more an administrative process than a signal of anything. Less TAPV most of those fleets are at the end of their lives.

Having proper authority to manage the end of life processes is just good institutional practices. It takes years post approval to complete divestment especially when you align it with fleet replacements.

 

[dapaterson]

Generally starting divestment paperwork doesn't mean a fleet is going away anytime soon. It is more an administrative process than a signal of anything. Less TAPV most of those fleets are at the end of their lives.

LSVW ad MSVS MilCOT are past the end of their lives.

 

[MJP]

LSVW ad MSVS MilCOT are past the end of their lives.

Yes most of the B fleet is way past service life.

LSVW already has a signed VCDS declaration of surplus. It changes little other than ADM(Mat) can do the disposal plan. We are still going to use the fleet until it die dies.

 

[PrairieFella]

Generally starting divestment paperwork doesn't mean a fleet is going away anytime soon. It is more an administrative process than a signal of anything. Less TAPV most of those fleets are at the end of their lives.

Having proper authority to manage the end of life processes is just good institutional practices. It takes years post approval to complete divestment especially when you align it with fleet replacements.

I hear you but the reporting seems like its more imminent than it is an exercise in good fleet management. Much of the MSVS Milcot fleet is down due to tyre issues. Hopefully they get them fixed.

LSVW ad MSVS MilCOT are past the end of their lives.

Good riddance to the LS but man the MSVS would hurt. Next to no MSVS SMP were allocated to the ARes and no LVM cargos were either from what Ive seen. We need another decade out of the MSVS yet. Tough to take care of domops when there are no cargo vehicles. Im hoping its a bit of hyperbole on Noah's part.

 

[MJP]

I get what you are saying but unless we do a deliberate parking of fleets à la 2014 starting the divestment process is just that.

We will see there are two key CA conferences sitting this week/next where lots of these decisions get hashed out.

 

[PrairieFella]

I get what you are saying but unless we do a deliberate parking of fleets à la 2014 starting the divestment process is just that.

We will see there are two key CA conferences sitting this week/next where lots of these decisions get hashed out.

Thats my fear. Agree on the wait and see.

 

[armyvern]

Generally starting divestment paperwork doesn't mean a fleet is going away anytime soon. It is more an administrative process than a signal of anything. Less TAPV most of those fleets are at the end of their lives.

Having proper authority to manage the end of life processes is just good institutional practices. It takes years post approval to complete divestment especially when you align it with fleet replacements.

Too true.

Reminds me of that time in 2017 as the Fmn CWO when we met Comd CJOC - MR - in Montreal to take him through 25CFSD on a walk-about. At the time new incoming projects were requiring 'indoor storage' but the depots (including our CFADs) were full up to the rafters and, of course, the "whys??" were being fired at us by Ottawa.

I had explained to him in Ottawa that when one closes the 3rd CFSD (1 CFSD Downsview) & CF Europe and disposes of the Boeing fleet (for divestment) concurrently, the redistribution of all those assets into 2 remaining CFSDs tends to take up quite a bit of indoor space and that neglect in turning over divestments for actual physical disposal had turned us into the CAF junk drawers. "We" had zero authority to actually dispose or divest - just to "hold and store".

He was quite amused to see the 25 CFSD warehouse bldg full up of Boeing gear that had been pulled for divestment and shipped to 25 CFSD circa 1997 from Trenton with it's carbon-paper era CARFs still affixed and signed off by one Cpl Yours Truely. At 7 CFSD he enjoyed seeing all the crates from 4 CMBG paint-stencilled "Lahr, West Germany" with 10 inches of dust atop them ... waiting ... taking up space.

I really, really hope the process has improved.

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Too true.

Reminds me of that time in 2017 as the Fmn CWO when we met Comd CJOC - MR - in Montreal to take him through 25CFSD on a walk-about. At the time new incoming projects were requiring 'indoor storage' but the depots (including our CFADs) were full up to the rafters and, of course, the "whys??" were being fired at us by Ottawa.

I had explained to him in Ottawa that when one closes the 3rd CFSD (1 CFSD Downsview) & CF Europe and disposes of the Boeing fleet (for divestment) concurrently, the redistribution of all those assets into 2 remaining CFSDs tends to take up quite a bit of indoor space and that neglect in turning over divestments for actual physical disposal had turned us into the CAF junk drawers. "We" had zero authority to actually dispose or divest - just to "hold and store".

He was quite amused to see the 25 CFSD warehouse bldg full up of Boeing gear that had been pulled for divestment and shipped to 25 CFSD circa 1997 from Trenton with it's carbon-paper era CARFs still affixed and signed off by one Cpl Yours Truely. At 7 CFSD he enjoyed seeing all the crates from 4 CMBG paint-stencilled "Lahr, West Germany" with 10 inches of dust atop them ... waiting ... taking up space.

I really, really hope the process has improved.

I would not be surprised to find out that stuff is either still there or the buildings in question have been torn down and all that old gear has been moved to a new built for purpose structures. And there is still a shortage of storage spaces.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I haven't heard of the MSVS MilCOTS (i.e the Internationals) being divested but I have heard the LUVW G-Wagen is and the LUVW-MilCOTS are also well past their expiry date

 

[MJP]

Too true.

Reminds me of that time in 2017 as the Fmn CWO when we met Comd CJOC - MR - in Montreal to take him through 25CFSD on a walk-about. At the time new incoming projects were requiring 'indoor storage' but the depots (including our CFADs) were full up to the rafters and, of course, the "whys??" were being fired at us by Ottawa.

I really, really hope the process has improved.

It is improving. I worked in this space both within CMSG and at CA L1 level. CMSG is getting some increased abilities and they are working with CJLOG and EPMs to get rid of the dormant stuff. CA side of the house we are trying to simplify the process to get the files to ADMMatso they can get the disposal plans done

Divestment still take way too long as every widget needs to be listed in the ADMMat disposal plan and EMTs do those on the side of their day jobs. EPM have varying levels of disposal teams which also all filter through a very small DSCO 7 team so there are lots of frictions.

I haven't heard of the MSVS MilCOTS (i.e the Internationals) being divested but I have heard the LUVW G-Wagen is and the LUVW-MilCOTS are also well past their expiry date

LUVW-SMP will see a partial divestment mostly of old BER vehs that are already sitting in EFDs (or were destroyed on Ops and never properly adjusted). There is a partial R&O of the fleet to extend it until LVM-L. LUVW MILCOTS is full divestment.

That said the paperwork is an intention, the vehicles will be driven for the foreseeable future regardless if it is declared surplus or not