Presidential election may be up for grabs

[CougarKing]

I tuned in to the US VP debates at CNN simply because I found them more interesting than the CBC debates between Harper, Duceppe, Layton, Dion and Elizabeth May.

When it came to the debate tonight, I thought that both seemed solid in spite of the disparity in experience between Biden and Palin. Still, I have a number of key points and observations that I would like to point out:

1.) Both essentially tried to defend their respective economic philosophies of themselves and their respective running mates, with Palin again emphasizing deregulation and the need for less government while at the same time going negative with the assertion that the Dems. will always increase taxes to fund huge government bureaucracy expansion. Biden responded in line with Obama's mantra that Dem.s actually intended just to raise taxes only for the rich and on corporations while at the same time cutting taxes for the middle class and working class Americans.

2.) When it came to the issue of climate change and energy, Palin thought that global warming was only partially caused by man and had more to do with the planet's cyclical climate changes, while Biden thought it was wholly caused by man- both did agree on the need for capping emissions. Interestingly, Biden pointed out that John McCain actually voted against that the same bills to drill for more oil that Barack Obama supposedly opposed.
  -Palin actually said that Senator Biden opposed clean coal energy when Biden rebutted by saying he actually wholly supported it and even wanted to export it to countries like China to so that they can also reduce their emissions. 

3.) Biden also pointed out that John McCain actually voted against the same legislation to fund the troops that Obama opposed simply because the bill contained the mention of a timeline to withdraw the troops- at timeline which McCain did not like because it was tantamount to defeat. Even Palin confirmed that by saying that setting a clear timeline was waving a white flag of surender, when Biden pointed that the current Bush government and the Iraqi government under PM Maliki were actually in talks right now to set a clear timeline to start withdrawing US troops form Iraq, which shows the support the Iraqi government has to Obama's timeline notion. Like Obama, Biden said that the war in Iraq was a mistake since the focus should have been ON AFGHANISTAN all along since that was where they began the war against the US.
  - Palin also said that Obama said that US-Allied troops were just in Afghanistan destroying and bombing villages when Obama never said such a thing. Palin also said that both Al Qaeda spokesmen and General Petraeus both said that the central front in this war was Iraq, not Afghanistan, although Biden clearly disagreed by emphasizing that the central front sould have been on Afghanistan all along. Biden also said that General Mcllelan of the US forces in Afghanistan said that the surge strategy used in Iraq would not work and emphasized the need for more shoring up of the Afghan government and infrastructure as well as the redeployment of some troops in Iraq to Afghanistan, IIRC.

4.) Both emphasized that their respective campaigns did not support gay marriage, although Biden said that he thought it should be left just to the states to decide and both did seem to agree that civil unions short of marriage could still be eligible for some benefits, visitation rights, etc.

5.) Again, like McCain, Palin bashed Obama for wanting to meet with Pres. Achmedinijad of Iran to resolve some issues like Iran's stance on nuclear weapons and Israel, though Biden responded by saying that Achmedinijad did not even control the security apparatus in Iran- the THEOCRACY did- like their Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei who was one of the successors to Ayatollah Khomeini who started the Iranian Revolution at the end of the 1970s, IIRC. He also emphasized that America's other allies had been actually pressuring on the US to meet with Iran's government for a while and that even the Bush administration after 5 years of just ignoring Iran actually sent a high delegate to joint talks with the Iranians and other nations in Switzerland, IIRC from what he said. Regardless, both stated that their respective camps would support Israel.

Another thing that I like about Senator Biden is that fact that he is a Liberal interventionist (meaning that one is willing to use the country's military for intervention in countries for reasons that don't necessarily serve America's interests, like peacekeeping/peacemaking missions that I infer that many of you here have a low opinion of)  since Biden also stated that he was the one who introduced the notion in Congress to intervene in Bosnia during Clinton's time, a move which many Republicans opposed. He also said that he was willing to send US troops to Sudan to support the African Union peacekeepers there since it was the right thing to do; he said that he had actually been to the camps in Chad which housed the refugees from the genocide in Sudan and he even brought up the possibility of "no-fly zones" over Sudan, IIRC from the debate.

6.) Lastly, while both said that it would be a national tragedy , if elected, if their running mate was to die in office, both still did pledge to continue their colleague's policies if it ever came to that.

Overall, it was an interesting, intense debate like last week, and Palin seemed like a quick study on some issues, though from what I observed she seemed to give more anecdotes about her small town and governor experience and just some more meaningless platitudes-like saying that she was willing to tolerate others who differed from her views and saying she had a "diverse family"- but overall I think that Biden won not only by virtue of experience (or any bias on my part), but also because I thought that he gave clear, articulate and effective counterarguments to some of the negative accusations that she threw against his running mate(Biden gave some interesting arguments about how McCain is a false maverick).

And here is a CNN commentary about tonight's debate:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/vice.presidential.debate/index.html

 

[tomahawk6]

Joe Biden’s outright lies during the debate:

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

 

[GAP]

Afghanistan, Pakistan split over US presidential hopefuls
Article Link

ISLAMABAD (AFP) — From Pakistani tribesmen to violence-weary Afghans there are hopes but few expectations, on the frontline of the "war on terror", that the next US president can solve the problem of Islamic militancy.

US military incursions in Pakistan have made next month's US election a big deal in the nuclear-armed nation, while Afghanistan is entering its eighth year as host to thousands of American troops fighting the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

But with Democratic candidate Barack Obama and Republican John McCain split on what is increasingly a key foreign policy issue in the White House race, opinions are divided in this corner of the world too.

Afghans largely welcome Obama's pledge, made in a recent debate with McCain, to "take out" extremist havens in Pakistan -- while Pakistanis resent it.

"We do not expect any positive change in US policy towards tribal areas, but Obama's gestures are aggressive," said Malik Habibullah Khan, a tribal elder from the remote Pakistani region of Bajaur.

His tribe joined an anti-Taliban military operation launched by the army last month -- but it has also pledged to take up arms against any US forces which intrude into Pakistani territory.
More on link

 

[CougarKing]

Wow. Just wow. The Dow Jones just fell below 10,000 and all Sarah Palin could do is accuse Barack Obama of "palling around with terrorists". Smells of desperation if you ask me. She forgot to note that Obama and that former terrorist Ayers are not close at all in spite of the way the GOP wants to paint them as such. And Barack Obama was just about 8 years old when Ayers was committing his terrorist acts.


A video of Obama's response to that:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/06/acosta.obama.palin.cnn

And an article about the continuing US crisis.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2008100610

Dow falls below 10,000
Blue-chip average falls below the milestone for the first time in nearly 4 years as fears about financial crisis grow.

AMERICA'S MONEY CRISIS
Citi files $60 billion Wachovia suit
Poll: 60% say depression 'likely'
FDIC: Insurance increase boosts confidence
Fuld blames 'crisis of confidence'
3 safe places to stash your cash

McCain, Obama: We'll vote for plan
Your Money: A voter's guide
Dear 44: Your economic to-do list
Hey, big spender
Buying friends in D.C.
Decoding Obama's tax claim


NEW YORK  (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks tumbled Monday, with the Dow Jones industrial average falling below 10,000 for the first time in nearly four years, as European governments' rush to prop up failing financial firms underscored the global reach of the credit crunch.

Credit markets remained tight, with two key measures of bank jitters hitting an all-time high. Treasurys rallied, lowering the corresponding yields as investors sought safety in government debt. Gold rallied for the same reason. Oil dipped. The dollar was mixed versus other major currencies.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost as much as 578 points before pulling back to a 400-point loss, hitting the lowest level during a session since Oct. 25, 2004.

The Standard & Poor's 500 (SPX) index fell 4.3% and the Nasdaq composite (COMP) lost 4.8%.

"We saw a spate of bank rescues in Europe, which is reminding people that this is a global crisis, not just a domestic one," said Todd Salamone, senior VP of research at Schaeffer's Investment Research.

He said investors were also continuing to react to the passage last week of the $700 billion bank rescue bill. He said that initially there was uncertainty about whether the bill would be passed after the House shot down the first version. Now there's uncertainty about how much it will help.

Stocks slumped Friday, as the Wall Street's worst week in seven years ended with President Bush signing the historic $700 billion bailout bill after weeks of contentious debate. The bill involves the Treasury buying bad debt directly from banks in order to get them to start lending to each other again.

But the bill won't help loosen up credit markets in the near term, and with cash still scarce, investors remained on edge.

The Federal Reserve attempted to address this Monday by making an additional $300 billion available to banks in return for a broad range of damaged assets. That raises the amount available to banks to $600 billion as of Monday and the Fed could expand that to $900 billion by the end of the year.

Underlining the global scope of the market malaise, Germany negotiated on Sunday a $69 billion deal for commercial lender Hypo Real Estate AG. Europe's second-largest economy also guaranteed all private bank accounts.

French BNP Paribas said it would buy 75% of troubled Fortis's Belgium bank after a government bailout failed to reassure investors.

European Union banks are in the process of devising a broader rescue strategy, although they have indicated that it would be on a smaller scale than what was seen in the United States.

Meanwhile in the United States, the battle for Wachovia (WB, Fortune 500) continued, with Wells Fargo (WFC, Fortune 500) and Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) both looking to stake their claims.

A measure of investor fear surged, with the CBOE Volatility index (VIX), or the VIX, at a 19-year high.

Salamone said this shows nervousness on a short-term basis is rising, but not enough to signal a stock market bottom is forming. "Fear is getting higher, but it's not at panic levels that have implied major market bottoms in the past," he said.

Credit markets: Measures of bank nervousness remained at elevated levels Monday.

The difference between the 3-month Libor and the Overnight Index Swaps rallied to an all-time high of 2.94% before pulling back. The Libor-OIS spread measures how much cash is available for lending between banks and is used by banks to determine rates. The bigger the spread, the less cash is available.

Libor, the rate banks charge each other to borrow overnight, rose to 2.37%. But 3-month Libor, the rate banks charge each other to borrow for three months, dipped slightly to 4.29% from a nine-month high of 4.33% last January, according to Bloomberg.

The TED spread, which is the difference between 3-month Libor and what the Treasury pays for a 3-month loan, briefly hit an all-time high of 3.93%, before pulling back a bit.

The wider the spread, the more reluctant banks are to lend to each other rather than from the federal government. When markets are fairly calm, banks charge each other premiums that are not much higher than the U.S. government.

The yield on the 3-month Treasury bill, seen as the safest place to put money in the short term, fell to 0.39% from 0.49% late Friday, with investors willing to take a slim return on their money rather than risk stocks. Last month, the 3-month bill skidded to a 68-year low around 0%.

Long-term government debt prices gained and the yields slipped. The benchmark 10-year Treasury note rose 1-4/32, lowering the corresponding yield to 3.47% from 3.60% Friday. Treasury prices and yields move in opposite directions.

Company news: eBay (EBAY, Fortune 500) said it was cutting 10% of its workforce, or about 1,000 employees, due to the slowdown. (Full story)

Among other movers, a variety of financial stocks tumbled, including Citigroup (C, Fortune 500), Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) and JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500).

Oil and gold: Oil prices were lower, with U.S. light crude oil for November delivery falling $3.83 to $90.05 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract briefly fell below $90 for the first time since February.

COMEX gold for December delivery rallied $29.30 to $862.50 an ounce.

Other markets: In global trading, European and Asian markets tumbled. Trading on Russia's main market was suspended twice Monday as stocks plummeted.

In currency trading, the dollar gained against the euro and fell versus the yen.

The price of gas decreased for the 19th consecutive day, according to a survey of credit card swipes.

 

[a_majoor]

Sorry, but Ayers was not an "eco-terroist" but a member of the Weather Underground, which carried out a campaign of bombings in the late 1960's and early 1970's.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

As well, his connection with Senator Obama was much more recent, both Obama and Ayers were members of the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002. In addition, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate in April 2001, as reported here. They lived within a few blocks of each other in the trendy Hyde Park section of Chicago, and moved in the same liberal-progressive circles.

from National Review, the reason some people have questions:

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2NmN2Q3NjRiMjgxZmUyZTk2NmJiOGJhMDIyNDRiNGE=

The Chicago Tribune's John Kass jumps on the story of Stanley Kurtz, the library at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and 132 boxes full of documents pertaining to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge - the project that Bill Ayers founded and Barack Obama chaired.

Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley offers his non-answer on whether the library, named after his father, should release the documents:

    "Bill Ayers—I've said this—his father was a great friend of my father," the mayor said. "I'll be very frank. Vietnam divided families, divided people. It was a terrible time of our country. People didn't know one another. Since then, I'll be very frank, [Ayers] has been in the forefront of a lot of education issues and helping us in public schools and things like that."

    The mayor expressed his frustrations with outside agitators like Kurtz.

    "People keep trying to align himself with Barack Obama," Daley said. "It's really unfortunate. They're friends. So what? People do make mistakes in the past. You move on. This is a new century, a new time. He reflects back and he's been making a strong contribution to our community."

Completely unmentioned is whether documents held at a state-run university's library, about a project to reform and improve public school systems, relating to a public figure who wants to be the next president, can be withheld from the public's eyes.

Also note that Daley says that "people do make mistakes in the past," although William Ayers has never expressed regret for setting bombs in places like the U.S. Capitol and women's bathrooms in the Pentagon.

Why withhold these documents? I would have thought that something like this should be a source of pride for Senator Obama, who has been characterized as a man with few accomplishments. (Then again, Senator Kerry has never released his military records, despite the damage he received from the "Swiftboaters"). People will draw conclusions from these actions, regardless of the reason for withholding records.

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.upstatefilms.org/weather/main.html

[In October 1969 hundreds of young people, clad in football helmets and wielding lead pipes, marched through an upscale Chicago shopping district, pummeling parked cars and smashing shop windows in their path.

This was the first demonstration of the Weather Underground's "Days of Rage." Outraged by the Vietnam War and racism in America, the organization waged a low-level war against the U.S. government through much of the 1970s, bombing the Capitol building, breaking Timothy Leary out of prison, and evading one of the largest FBI manhunts in history.

The Weather Underground is a feature-length documentary that explores the rise and fall of this radical movement, as former members speak candidly about the idealistic passion that drove them to "bring the war home" and the trajectory that placed them on the FBI's most wanted list.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Hello, I'm going to read a declaration of a state of war...within the next 14 days we will attack a symbol or institution of American injustice." ~ Bernardine Dohrn

Thirty years ago, with those words, a group of young American radicals announced their intention to overthrow the U.S. government. In THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND, former Underground members, including Bernardine Dohrn, Bill Ayers, Mark Rudd, David Gilbert and Brian Flanagan, speak publicly about the idealistic passion that drove them to "bring the war home" and the trajectory that placed them on the FBI's most wanted list.

Fueled by outrage over racism and the Vietnam War, the Weather Underground waged a low-level war against the U.S. government through much of the 1970s--bombing targets across the country that they considered emblematic of the real violence that the U.S. was wreaking throughout the world. Ultimately, the group's carefully organized clandestine network managed to successfully evade one of the largest manhunts in FBI history, yet the group's members would reemerge to life in a country that was dramatically different than the one they had hoped their efforts would inspire. Extensive archival material, including, photographs, film footage and FBI documents are interwoven with modern-day interviews to trace the group's path, from its pitched battles with police on Chicago's streets, to its bombing of the U.S. Capitol, to its successful endeavor breaking acid-guru Timothy Leary out of prison. The film explores the Weathermen in the context of other social movements of the time and features interviews with former members of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and the Black Panthers. It also examines the U.S. government's suppression of dissent in the 1960s and 1970s.

Looking back at their years underground, the former members paint a compelling portrait of troubled times, revolutionary times, and the forces that drove their resistance.

/quote]

These people were concurrent with RAF, Ross Brigata, Action Direct, FLQ, PIRA, FLN, PLO.........and a hundred and one other "revolutionary" organizations that sought to disrupt if not overthrow, by violent means.

 

[CougarKing]

Does the name "Keating 5" ring a bell?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008157607_mckeating04.html

Revisiting McCain's Keating 5 history
At one time, John McCain said the worst thing that ever happened to him, Vietnam included, was the so-called Keating 5 scandal. "The Vietnamese," he would...

By Los Angeles Times

At one time, John McCain said the worst thing that ever happened to him, Vietnam included, was the so-called Keating 5 scandal. "The Vietnamese," he would say, "didn't question my honor."

Among McCain's earliest benefactors in Arizona was Lincoln Savings and Loan chief Charles Keating Jr., who filled McCain's campaign coffers with more than $100,000 and hosted the McCains multiple times at his vacation home in the Bahamas.

Keating expected his largesse to be rewarded, and when federal regulators began looking into Lincoln's questionable lending practices and investments in the late 1980s, he turned to five senators whose coffers he had lined — Alan Cranston of California, Donald Riegle of Michigan, John Glenn of Ohio and both Arizona senators, Dennis DeConcini and McCain.

McCain attended two meetings with regulators at Keating's request. McCain's view was that he was seeking information on behalf of a constituent who was an important employer in his state. The regulators' view was that they were being pressured to act favorably for Keating.

Lincoln's collapse, the biggest of many savings and loan failures, cost taxpayers $2.6 billion. Keating spent four years in jail, before his sentence was overturned on a technicality, and the Keating 5, as the senators came to be known, lived under an ethical cloud for years.

During the investigation, McCain revealed he and his wife, Cindy, had not reimbursed Keating for thousands of dollars in flights on his company jet to the Bahamas. The McCains blamed each other, reported McCain biographer Robert Timberg, causing the first rift in their marriage.

Then, The Arizona Republic published a report about an investment that Cindy McCain had made with her father in a shopping-mall project owned by a Keating company.

In 1991, McCain, along with his four Democratic colleagues, was found guilty by the Senate Ethics Committee of using "poor judgment" for attending the meetings with regulators on Keating's behalf.

"I watched John just crumble," Cindy McCain told Timberg. "I've seen the glow go out of him. This is a guy who could reach for the stars, and now he can't — or he won't."

 

[tomahawk6]

The Senate Investigator Bob Bennett said:

"It was clear that McCain should not have been at the table nor should Glenn," Bennett said. "I felt it was unfair for McCain to be included as part of the Keating Five." Bennett stressed that he was not speaking as part of the campaign, though he noted he also represented McCain in his recent battles with the New York Times.

 

[muskrat89]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/mccain/articles/2007/03/01/20070301mccainbio-chapter7.html

Despite the reprieve, Keating's businesses continued to spiral downward, taking the five senators with him. Together, the five had accepted more than $300,000 in contributions from Keating, and their critics added a new term to the American lexicon: "The Keating Five."

The Keating Five became synonymous for the kind of political influence that money can buy. As the S&L failure deepened, the sheer magnitude of the losses hit the press. Billions of dollars had been squandered. The five senators were linked as the gang who shilled for an S&L bandit.

S&L "trading cards" came out. The Keating Five card showed Charles Keating holding up his hand, with a senator's head adorning each finger. McCain was on Keating's pinkie.

As the investigation dragged through 1988, McCain dodged the hardest blows. Most landed on DeConcini, who had arranged the meetings and had other close ties to Keating, including $50 million in loans from Keating to DeConcini's aides.

But McCain made a critical error.

He had adopted the blanket defense that Keating was a constituent and that he had every right to ask his senators for help. In attending the meetings, McCain said, he simply wanted to make sure that Keating was treated like any other constituent.

Keating was no ordinary constituent to McCain.

On Oct. 8, 1989, The Arizona Republic revealed that McCain's wife and her father had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators.

The paper also reported that the McCains, sometimes accompanied by their daughter and baby-sitter, had made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard the American Continental jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay.

McCain also did not pay Keating for some of the trips until years after they were taken, after he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. Total cost: $13,433.

When the story broke, McCain did nothing to help himself.

"You're a liar," McCain said when a Republic reporter asked him about the business relationship between his wife and Keating.

"That's the spouse's involvement, you idiot," McCain said later in the same conversation. "You do understand English, don't you?"

He also belittled reporters when they asked about his wife's ties to Keating.

"It's up to you to find that out, kids."

The paper ran the story.

In his 2002 book, McCain confesses to "ridiculously immature behavior" during that particular interview and adds that The Republic reporters' "persistence in questioning me about the matter provoked me to rage."

"I don't know how (The Republic journalists) would have reported the story had I been more civil and understanding or just more of a professional during the interview," McCain wrote.

At a news conference after the story ran, McCain was a changed man. He stood calmly for 90 minutes and answered every question.

On the shopping center, his defense was simple. The deal did not involve him. The shares in the shopping center had been bought by a partnership set up between McCain's wife and her father. (The couple also had a prenuptial agreement that separated Cindy McCain's finances and dealings from his.)

But McCain also had to explain his trips with Keating and why he didn't pay Keating back right away.

On that score, McCain admitted he had fouled up. He said he should have reimbursed Keating immediately, not waited several years. His staff said it was an oversight, but it looked bad, McCain jetting around with Keating, then going to bat for him with the federal regulators.

"I was in a hell of a mess," McCain later would write.

Meanwhile, Lincoln continued to founder.

In April 1989, two years after the Keating Five meetings, the government seized Lincoln, which declared bankruptcy. In September 1990, Keating was booked into Los Angeles County Jail, charged with 42 counts of fraud. His bond was set at $5 million.

During Keating's trial, the prosecution produced a parade of elderly investors who had lost their life's savings by investing in American Continental junk bonds.

Verdict: 'Poor judgment'

In November 1990, the Senate Ethics Committee convened to decide what punishment, if any, should be doled out to the Keating Five.

Robert Bennett, who would later represent President Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones case, was the special counsel for the committee. In his opening remarks, he slammed DeConcini but went lightly on McCain, the lone Republican ensnared with four Democrats.

"In the case of Senator McCain, there is very substantial evidence that he thought he had an understanding with Senator DeConcini's office that certain matters would not be gone into at the meeting with (bank board) Chairman (Ed) Gray," Bennett said.

"Moreover, there is substantial evidence that, as a result of Senator McCain's refusal to do certain things, he had a fallout with Mr. Keating."

Among the Keating Five, McCain took the most direct contributions from Keating. But the investigation found that he was the least culpable, along with Glenn. McCain attended the meetings but did nothing afterward to stop Lincoln's death spiral.

Lincoln was the most expensive failure in the national S&L scandal. Taxpayers lost more than $2 billion on the bailout. McCain also looked good in contrast to DeConcini, who continued to defend Keating until fall 1989, when federal regulators filed a $1.1 billion civil racketeering and fraud suit against Keating, accusing him of siphoning Lincoln's deposits to his family and into political campaigns.

In January 1993, a federal jury convicted him of 73 counts of wire and bankruptcy fraud in the collapse of American Continental and Lincoln. Keating was sentenced to 12 years and seven months in prison but served just 50 months before the conviction was overturned on a technicality. In 1999, at age 75, he pleaded guilty to four counts of fraud. He was sentenced to time served.

In the end, McCain received only a mild rebuke from the Ethics Committee for exercising "poor judgment" for intervening with the federal regulators on behalf of Keating. Still, he felt tarred by the affair.

"The appearance of it was wrong," McCain said. "It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."

McCain noted that Bennett, the independent counsel, recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation.

"For the first time in history, the Ethics Committee overruled the recommendation of the independent counsel," McCain said. For his part, DeConcini is critical of McCain's role in the affair. The two senators never were particularly cozy, and the stress of the public scrutiny worsened their relations.

 

[muskrat89]

Wow. Just wow. The Dow Jones just fell below 10,000 and all Sarah Palin could do is accuse Barack Obama of "palling around with terrorists". Smells of desperation if you ask me. She forgot to note that Obama and that former eco-terrorist Ayers are not close at all in spite of the way the GOP wants to paint them as such. And Barack Obama was just about 8 years old when Ayers was committing his terrorist acts.

Even Obama Has Previously Referred To Ayers As "A Guy Who Lives In My Neighborhood" And Not Someone He Exchanges Ideas With "On A Regular Basis." Obama: "George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about. This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense, George." (Sen. Barack Obama, ABC Democrat Candidates Presidential Debate, Philadelphia, PA, 4/16/08)

There you have it..... 

or not.

From the GOP website, which obviously isn't very objective, but references cited for everything:

But Obama's Connections With Bill Ayers Are Much More Extensive Than He Or His Campaign Staff Is Willing To Admit:

In 1995, During Obama's First State Senate Campaign, William Ayers And Wife Bernadine Dohrn Hosted A Meeting Of Chicago Liberals At Their Home For Obama, Which One Attendee Said Was Aimed At "Launching Him." "In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district's influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While Ayers and Dohrn may be thought of in Hyde Park as local activists, they're better known nationally as two of the most notorious -- and unrepentant -- figures from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement. ... 'I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers' house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress,' said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the info rmal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. '[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor.' ... Dr. Young and another guest, Maria Warren, described it similarly: as an introduction to Hyde Park liberals of the handpicked successor to Palmer, a well-regarded figure on the left. 'When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the living room of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn,' Warren wrote on her blog in 2005. 'They were launching him -- introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.'" (Ben Smith, "Obama Once Visited '60s Radicals," The Politico, 1/22/08)

From March Of 1995 Until September Of 1997, Obama And Ayers Attended At Least Seven Meetings Together Relating To The Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Board Of Directors Meeting, Minutes Of The Board, 3/15/95, 3/31/95, 4/13/95, 6/5/95, 9/30/97; National Annenberg Challenge Evaluation Meeting, List Of Participants, 5/24/95; Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Chicago School Reform Collaborative Meeting, Minutes, 10/23/96)

    * NOTE: Bill Ayers Was Asked To Help Obama Formulate The Chicago Annenberg Challenge By-Laws. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board Of Directors Minutes, 3/15/95)

In 1997, Obama Praised Ayers' Book On The Juvenile Justice System. "The two men were involved in efforts to reform the city's education system. They appeared together on academic panels, including one organized by Michelle Obama to discuss the juvenile justice system, an area of mutual concern. Mr. Ayers's book on the subject won a rave review in The Chicago Tribune by Mr. Obama, who called it 'a searing and timely account.'" (Jo Becker and Christopher Drew, "Pragmatic Politics, Forged On The South Side," The New York Times, 5/11/08)

    * Obama On William Ayers' "A Kind And Just Parent: The Children Of Juvenile Court": "A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair." (Chicago Tribune, 12/21/97)

"[Obama And Ayers] Have Also Appeared Jointly On Two Academic Panels, One In 1997 And Another In 2001." (Russell Berman, "Obama's Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny," The New York Sun, 2/19/08)

From 1999 To 2002, Obama Served With Ayers On The Board Of Directors For Woods Fund Of Chicago. "[Ayers] served with [Obama] from 1999 to 2002 on the board of the Woods Fund, an anti-poverty group." (Timothy J. Burger, "Obama's Chicago Ties Might Fuel 'Republican Attack Machine'," Bloomberg, 2/15/08)

My point being it is obviously not as cut and dry as this: She forgot to note that Obama and that former eco-terrorist Ayers are not close at all

 

[tomahawk6]

My point being it is obviously not as cut and dry as this: She forgot to note that Obama and that former eco-terrorist Ayers are not close at all

Wrong.Obama and Ayrs/Dorn have been close for twenty years.They baby sat Obama's kids.Ayrs and Obama worked closely on a $100m radical education project. The point is there is a pattern here if anyone cares to see it of hanging out with radicals whether its at church,business or socially.Not a problem if you are a Senator but its a problem if you want to be President.He is THE most liberal Senator in the Senate and thats saying something.This is substantiated by his voting record. We may end up electing this guy which would be most unfortunate for the taxpayer.

 

[GAP]

Wrong.Obama and Ayrs/Dorn have been close for twenty years.They baby sat Obama's kids.Ayrs and Obama worked closely on a $100m radical education project. The point is there is a pattern here if anyone cares to see it of hanging out with radicals whether its at church,business or socially.Not a problem if you are a Senator but its a problem if you want to be President.He is THE most liberal Senator in the Senate and thats saying something.This is substantiated by his voting record. We may end up electing this guy which would be most unfortunate for the taxpayer.

There is much that is being glossed over about Obama. Color has little to do with it, but his past connections, actions, affiliations speak of an agenda that does not bode well for America in general......I wonder why people refuse to see the questions?

 

[OldSolduer]

The left wing MSM is in love with Obama. Anyone can see that.
I don't think the McCain/Palin Combo is great, in fact I think it's weak.

 

[GAP]

The left wing MSM is in love with Obama. Anyone can see that.
I don't think the McCain/Palin Combo is great, in fact I think it's weak.

While the combination may be weak, I don't see any comparative strength in the Obama team. At least McCain has a history of railing against earmarks, and crap such as some of the wildass spending Congress embarks on, there is no such history from Obama.

 

[muskrat89]

T6 - Not sure if you misread my post, or were agreeing with it. CougarDaddy made the statement "She forgot to note that Obama and that former eco-terrorist Ayers are not close at all"

I was providing information that demonstrates they are more than "not close at all".

Or - maybe I misread your post.

 

[tomahawk6]

I disagreed with the highlighted sentence.

 

[CougarKing]

T6 - Not sure if you misread my post, or were agreeing with it. CougarDaddy made the statement "She forgot to note that Obama and that former eco-terrorist Ayers are not close at all"

I was providing information that demonstrates they are more than "not close at all".

Or - maybe I misread your post.

"Eco" terrorist comment edited out. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.  ;D

 

[a_majoor]

An interesting look at how voters are divided by incomes:

http://www.omnivoracious.com/2008/10/red-blue-roun-1.html

Red-Blue Roundtable: Andrew Gelman
by Election 2008 on October 06, 2008

Gelman_andrew_150 The big message of our Red State, Blue State book is that the "culture war" between red and blue America is real, but it is concentrated among upper-income voters.  Richer Americans tend to be more politically involved and more ideological in their voting patterns.

Here are some maps from our book showing our estimate of who would've won each state in 2004 if only the votes of rich, middle-income, or poor voters were counted. For each scenario, we show the states (red if Bush would've won in that income category, blue if Kerry would've won) and then a scatterplot of estimated Bush vote vs. state income.

Among the rich, you see a strong red-state, blue-state divide, with Kerry winning rich voters in only four states--the cultural elite of New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and California--and Bush winning the other forty-six. Going to lower-income voters, you see Kerry winning in a mixture of rich and poor states.

So, what does this say about Amazon book-buying patterns? Or, more to the point, what do Amazon book-buying patterns tell us about the electorate? I assume Amazon purchasers are mostly in the upper third of income, and so I'd expect to see pretty strong red-state, blue-state divisions. And, indeed, the colors of Amazon's red-blue map of book purchasers looks a lot more like the voting patterns of the rich than the poor.

For example, look at Nevada, whose Amazon purchases are going 2:1 Red to Blue. Nevada as a whole is split evenly between the two parties, but higher-income Nevadans have gone Republican in recent elections.

Higher-income, more politically involved citizens drive our political discussions, on both the left and the right, and so I think the Amazon data are telling us something. But let's not forget that the geographic distribution of political attitudes is different among other segments of the population. --Andrew Gelman

 

[CougarKing]

Thoughts, folks? I only was able to watch the first 30 minutes since I had to get to a volunteer group meeting.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate/index.html

Obama, McCain draw contrasts in second debate
Story Highlights
NEW: Candidates slam each other on foreign policy

NEW: Barack Obama, John McCain spend half of debate discussing economy

NEW: Obama, McCain question each other's judgment

Debate set up like a town hall, with audience of uncommitted voters
   
(CNN) -- Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama went head-to-head on the economy, domestic policy and foreign affairs as they faced off in their second presidential debate.


Sen. Barack Obama challenged Sen. John McCain's views on Iraq.

1 of 3  The debate was set up like a town hall meeting, and the audience was made up of undecided voters.

The candidates spoke directly to each other at times, but at other times they spoke as if their opponent were not in the room.

The debate over foreign policy boiled down to who has the better judgment.

McCain said he knows how to handle foreign affairs and questioned Obama's ability to do so.

"My judgment is something that I think I have a record to stand on," McCain said.

McCain said the "challenge" facing a president considering using military force "is to know when to go in and when not."

Obama questioned McCain's judgment in supporting the invasion of Iraq.

"When Sen. McCain was cheerleading the president to go into Iraq, he suggested it was going to be quick and easy -- we would be greeted as liberators. That was the wrong judgment," he said.

Obama vowed to get Osama bin Laden and defeat al Qaeda.

"We will kill bin Laden, we will crush al Qaeda," he said.

McCain responded in equally strong terms: "I'll get him. I know how to get him. But I am not going to telegraph my punches as Sen. Obama did."

McCain and Obama seemed to agree that there were situations when the United States should be willing to use force to stop a humanitarian crisis, even when America was not directly threatened.

Earlier, Obama said the country has a "moral commitment as well as an economic imperative" to address the health care problem.

The Illinois senator said health care is a "crushing burden" for small businesses and is "breaking family budgets."

Obama and McCain both proposed computerizing medical records to reduce costs and limit errors.

McCain argued that Obama's plan included fines for small businesses that did not insure their employees, while his was based on "choice" rather than "mandates."

Obama said health care was a "right," while McCain said it was a "responsibility."

Obama's health care plan includes the creation of a national health insurance program for individuals who do not have employer-provided health care and who do not qualify for other existing federal programs. His plan does not mandate individual coverage for all Americans, but requires coverage for all children.

McCain opposes federally mandated universal coverage. He believes competition will improve the quality of health insurance.

McCain says he would reform the tax code to offer choices beyond employee-based health insurance coverage. Under the plan, all taxpayers would receive a direct refundable tax credit of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families

During the first half of the debate, the candidates focused on their plans to fix the economy.

McCain said the system in Washington "cries out for bipartisanship" and pushed his record as a reformer.

He and Obama were asked how voters could trust either one of them to fix the economy when both parties contributed to the financial crisis.  Watch the candidates explain why they can be trusted »

Obama said "while it is true that nobody is completely innocent here, we have had over the last eight years the biggest increases in deficit spending and national debt in our history."

Obama said the country is in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression as he began his second presidential debate with Sen. John McCain.

He blamed President Bush and McCain for the crisis, saying they had worked to "strip away regulation."

McCain proposed having the government buy up and renegotiate bad home loans to stabilize the property market.  Watch McCain talk about his plan for the economy »

He admitted the plan would be expensive but said it was necessary.

McCain also hammered away at his rival's tax policies, saying that "nailing down Sen. Obama's various tax proposals is like nailing Jello to the wall."  Watch McCain slam Obama's tax plan »

"I am not in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy. I am in favor of leaving the tax rates alone," McCain said.

McCain charged that "Obama's secret that you don't know" is that he would increase taxes on small business revenue, which he said would lead to job cuts.

Obama shot back, saying "the Straight Talk Express lost a wheel on that one."  Watch Obama talk about his plan for the middle class »

"Let's be clear about my tax plan and Sen. McCain's," he said. "I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of Americans."

In response to a question from moderator Tom Brokaw, McCain floated the names of billionaire investor Warren Buffett -- an Obama supporter -- and Meg Whitman, the former eBay executive who is one of his economic advisers.

Obama agreed that "Warren would be a pretty good choice," but declined to go into specifics about who he would nominate.

The debate was set up like a town hall, and the candidates are fielding questions from audience members, the moderator and Internet participants.

The two faced off at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

The debate follows several days of intense sparring from both nominees' camps.

Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's running mate, accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," and Obama's campaign released an ad quoting editorials that called McCain "erratic" and "out of touch."

On Monday, the Obama campaign released an online documentary criticizing McCain over his involvement in the Keating Five scandal of the 1980s. Fact check: Did McCain intervene on behalf of Charles Keating?

Obama's campaign said Tuesday's town hall setting would benefit McCain.

Going into debates, campaigns generally try to build up expectations for their opponent while lowering the bar for their candidate.

"When it comes to sheer format, we enter today's debate the decided underdog," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton in a memo sent to reporters.

"John McCain does extremely well in town hall settings. It's been his favorite format throughout his career and we think that he will of course do very well."

Palin agreed that the format should play in McCain's favor, telling reporters on her campaign plane that she thinks "he'll be feeling very much at home."


The Alaska governor was watching the debate from a restaurant in Greenville, North Carolina.

Sen. Joe Biden, Obama's running mate, was watching the debate with his family at his home in Delaware.

 

[TCBF]

"Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley offers his non-answer on whether the library, named after his father, should release the documents:

    "Bill Ayers—I've said this—his father was a great friend of my father," the mayor said. "I'll be very frank. Vietnam divided families, divided people. It was a terrible time of our country. People didn't know one another. Since then, I'll be very frank, [Ayers] has been in the forefront of a lot of education issues and helping us in public schools and things like that."

- Mayor Daley's father was the Mayor of Chicago during the DNC riots of 1968.  I believe he exhorted his police force to "Shoot to Maim! Shoot to Kill!"

Edit: My memory failed me.  Acording to Wiki, he said this after the riots sparked by Martin Luther King's assassination (also in 1968):

"I said to him very emphatically and very definitely that an order be issued by him immediately to shoot to kill any arsonist or anyone with a Molotov cocktail in his hand, because they're potential murderers, and to shoot to maim or cripple anyone looting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_J._Daley