Presidential election may be up for grabs

[I_am_John_Galt]

This isn't much better from McCain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcPpZEs4t0 

And yes I know the video was made by a nut, but its all freely available clips and its the message, not the person people should be focusing on. And that's a good message for this entire election. Whether people choose a black man, a woman, or a man who could become the oldest ever president, people shouldn't focus on those aspects, just the message, but unfortunately that probably won't happen.

I don't get it.  How is feeling that a prolonged presence in Haiti and Somalia nearly 15 years ago wasn't in America's national security interest inconsistent with (or even remotely related to) the idea that a presence in Iraq today, is?

For all those looking for legislative accomplishments of various peoples.  Its all here, just pick the name from one of the drop-downs and see for yourself.

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Count of pieces of legislation introduced during current Congress: (obviously no indicator of quality)
McCain - 37
Clintion - 150
Obama - 113

You are right about the quality (those statistics are pretty much meaningless):

Obama's year in the Senate. The Illinois Senator sponsored or co-sponsored 63 bills this year. As with Hillary, some of them would have immediate practical effect--such as S. 1306, the Lead Free Toys Act of 2007-- and some are less urgent--such as S. Con. Res. 5 which honors the life of Percy Lavon Julian, the first African American to be inducted into the Academy of Sciences.

Of Obama's proposed legislation, 3 bills passed in 2007.

1. a resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
2. the designation of July 12, 2007 as "National Summer Learning Day."
3. a condemnation of Zimbabwe's governmental oppression of its citizens.

The takeaway from all of this? It's much easier to pass non-binding, symbolic laws than ones that actually do much to change the world. Congress is a team sport, after all. One could do a similar treatment of John McCain's past year, too.

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/01/09/hillarack-oblinton/ The point is that after more than a decade in public life, no-one seems to be able to account for his accomplishments ... his prominent qualities seem to be limited to his likeability and perceived electability. (EDIT: Sorry tomahawk6, I read right past your post ... at least we're consistent)

: Let's be fair. Just because the surrogates don't do their homework doesn't necessarily mean the man they are working for is the same.

Homework? The guy's a (State) Senator, and it's not like they are randomly picking these people off the street!

 

[tomahawk6]

Obama has only been in the Senate 3 years compared to McCain's 22 years in the Senate.McCain retired from the Navy after a 22 year career rising to Captain. His injuries from captivity and the lack of a command kept him from making Admiral like his father and grandfather.

Obama:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/

McCain:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/

 

[Gimpy]

I don't get it.  How is feeling that a prolonged presence in Haiti and Somalia nearly 15 years ago wasn't in America's national security inconsistent with (or even remotely related to) the idea that a presence in Iraq today, is?

"For us to get into nation-building, law and order, et cetera, I think, is a tragic and terrible mistake"

So McCain thinks its OK if the US does those things in Iraq, but it was a mistake to do so in Haiti and Somalia? Is that not a double-standard? He also stated that soldiers should immediately be withdrawn from those countries and that any deaths should be blamed on congress, and now he says the exact opposite about Iraq. It just seems like from that clip McCain thought that Haiti and Somalia weren't worth an American presence and help in re-building and now he feels Iraq does?

Somalia of all places in the world has deserved the most effort for nation-building, and especially law and order in what has been a failed state since the late 80's.

 

[tomahawk6]

Somalia of all places in the world has deserved the most effort for nation-building, and especially law and order in what has been a failed state since the late 80's.

Somalia is a failed state for a reason - nothing works there.

 

[Gimpy]

Somalia is a failed state for a reason - nothing works there.

Hence it being a failed state, but according to the Failed State Index Iraq is higher than Somalia, and if McCain wants to stay as long as it takes to fix Iraq then why wasn't he as committed to spending that much time to fix Somalia?

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

America's national security interest involves more than simply trying to turn every failed state into a model of Jeffersonian Democracy.

 

[tomahawk6]

Maybe we can take a second look at Somalia if oil is found there.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Maybe we can take a second look at Somalia if oil is found there.

Dammit, I think we just opened Pandora's Box!


P.S> Sorry about the cross-post back there!

 

[Gimpy]

Maybe we can take a second look at Somalia if oil is found there.

I'm not sure if this is a dig at me or just a light-hearted barb, but I've never stated that the War in Iraq was only for oil. Sorry for being a bit paranoid, but I'm no georgeharper and am most certainly not a nut like that. Reasoned debate is quite fun, and sarcasm/jokes are hard to pick out on the internet at times.

 

[tomahawk6]

Thank god for smilies.
On a serious note Obama displays his military knowledge in tonights debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kda4_5lFkZM&eurl=http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/

 

[Bane]

Does Obama's army anecdote check out?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html

 

[tomahawk6]

Nope.In the US Army Captains dont command platoons. It just shows his ignorance. Scary in a possible commander in chief.

 

[Bane]

I  see what you're saying on the one hand; there is a certaingly a minimum level of knowledge that any federal politician should have regarding military matters simply to be effective in the job.  This would hold far more so for a CiC.  On the other hand, it seems like you're nit picking on semantics a bit in this particular case.

"You know, I've heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon -- supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon,"

"Prior to deployment the Captain -- then a Lieutenant -- took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum."

 

[tomahawk6]

At best its very dated maybe 05. 10th Mountain being a light infantry formation had very few vehicles unlike today most of the units have vehicles.

 

[CougarKing]

Obama has only been in the Senate 3 years compared to McCain's 22 years in the Senate.McCain retired from the Navy after a 22 year career rising to Captain. His injuries from captivity and the lack of a command kept him from making Admiral like his father and grandfather.

McCain:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/

Didn't McCain spend a number of years as a PoW at the "Hanoi Hilton" PoW camp during the Vietnam War? It takes incredible will to survive a North Vietnamese prison camp, one would imagine.

 

[tomahawk6]

Both McCain's father and grandfather were Admirals too so he has a better grounding in military affairs.He retired as a Captain. He just didnt play well with others.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Didn't McCain spend a number of years as a PoW at the "Hanoi Hilton" PoW camp during the Vietnam War? It takes incredible will to survive a North Vietnamese prison camp, one would imagine.

Too lazy to look up the refs. right now, but the short 'n' sweet version is that he somehow survived Forrestal fire (after being caught in the middle of it), then volunteered to stay on another carrier.  Was shot-down and barely survived (injuries + near drowning) ... he was refused medical care, and tortured, because he refused to divulge information and became suicidal (though likely would have D/W anyway), until the Vietnamese realized that both his father and grandfather were famous admirals and felt he would thus serve as a valuable bargaining or propaganda tool.  He spent the end of the war in the Hanoi Hilton (cheering the Christmas Bombings from his cell).  Much of it sounds like a Hollywood script, but it has all been verified (as best as it can be).

 

[Mike Baker]

Ralph Nader enters presidential race

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Ralph Nader is entering the presidential race as an independent, he announced Sunday.

In an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press," the consumer advocate said great changes in U.S. history have come "through little parties that never won any national election."

"Dissent is the mother of ascent," he said. "And in that context I've decided to run for president."

Nader, who turns 74 this week, complained about the "paralysis of the government," which he said is under the control of corporate executives and lobbyists.

It marks his fourth straight White House bid -- fifth if his 1992 write-in campaign is included.

Nader's entry into the race did not come as a surprise to political watchers.

On Sunday, Sen. Barack Obama criticized him. "My sense is that Mr. Nader is somebody who, if you don't listen and adopt all of his policies, thinks you're not substantive," Obama told reporters when asked about Nader's possible candidacy.

"He seems to have a pretty high opinion of his own work."

Obama added that Nader "is a singular figure in American politics and has done as much as just about anyone for consumers."

And Obama added, "I don't mean to diminish that." But he added, "There's a sense now that if someone's not hewing to the Ralph Nader agenda, he says they're lacking in some way."

Responding to those remarks during his "Meet the Press" interview, Nader encouraged people to look at his campaign Web site, votenader.org, which he said discusses issues important to Americans that Obama and Sen. John McCain "are not addressing."

Nader called Obama "a person of substance" and "the first liberal evangelist in a long time" who "has run a good tactical campaign." But he accused Obama of censoring "his better instincts" on divisive issues.

He also said political consultants "have really messed up Hillary Clinton's campaign."

Nader also wrote off any suggestions that his entry into the race could draw enough votes from the Democratic candidate to help the Republican win. "If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form," he said.


Well, good luck Ralph, you'll probably need it

 

[tomahawk6]

Nader split off enough votes from Gore in 2000 to enable Bush to win. He may have the same effect this time around.

 

[Flip]

Or more immediately, Obama might tick off just enough people with remarks against him that Hillary gets the nomination.  Really, there is no smart thing for Obama to say about Nader at this point.  Better to just smile and ignore him.