Prime Minister questioned about expenses

[RocketRichard]

I never know if it's a good sign or bad sign when a post I make lures reclusive members out of hiding


This may very well end up being fake news. One thing I noticed though about this government lately is that they're not always upfront when it comes to money, right?  Sometimes government officials forget to include figures. We've seen how sometimes it takes a few months for actual costs to come out. The government doesn't seem all that upfront about what they're doing until they're pursued and pushed.

Maybe in a few weeks or months we'll be seeing additional costs associated to all this released.

Just taking the piss on an early Monday morn bud;  Have a good one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Remius]

So...Donald Trump has a point? 

That facts don't matter?

Yes.

 

[Journeyman]

The article by Spencer Fernando gets every single fact wrong but is making the rounds of social media.

He claims to provide insight because he's.... insightful;  nowhere does his site mention factual.  Truth is valued by some folks more than others.*


* Not referring to you, Jarnhamer for starting this;  you seem willing to think and question. 

 

[mariomike]

So...Donald Trump has a point? 

Replied in, "The US Presidency 2018", 
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/127915/post-1538230.html#msg1538230
"You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you."

 

[brihard]

This is the reason 24 Sussex is going to need to be torn down.

24 Sussex is a total mess. And part of the problem is that successive prime ministers are afraid of the optics of (inevitably expensive) renovations to the official residence(s) because of silly ‘gotcha!’ nonsense like this in question period.

I’d make a guess that of the dollar costs for the line items in this particular kerfluffle, written in is the increased cost of having security escorts and supervision for all contracted workers.

Harrington Lake is itself long overdue for renovations and repairs. The house is nearly a hundred years old. That will be an extremely expensive heritage property renovation- a whole bunch of stuff will have to be taken apart, numbered for reassembly like a lego set... that’s gonna be pricy and lengthy and I’m sure whoever is in opposition at the time will make political hay of it.

 

[Altair]

I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.

 

[Remius]

The best scenario would be for a Prime Minister who won't run again to then just throw money at it before leaving office. 

 

[Furniture]

The best scenario would be for a Prime Minister who won't run again to then just throw money at it before leaving office.

Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...

 

[Halifax Tar]

Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...

I don't think you are wrong.  And if it came to new windows or a roof, you know normal stuff, hell even just some decor befitting a head of state.  But:

$7500 for a swing set.
$5000 golf cart.
$8500 for new boat racks.
$13'000 for a new deck
$4000 to wire a new sauna.
$20'000 to groom ski trails

Again anyone who spends that dollar value on those expenses isn't in tune with the middle class.

 

[Altair]

Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...

I hear the Prime Ministers plane is starting to break down as well.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.

How does it help to give responsibility to either of these two entities, neither of which have any authority to appropriate  money?  None of the current residents of the official residences have any authority to arbitrarily undertake renovations or purchase with public funds any furniture, equipment or toys.  To put it in military terms, they're living in PMQs, a bit upmarket PMQ, but government housing just the same.  All the rules necessary are already in place and have been for decades.  From the Official Residences Act to the Management Principles for the Official Residences of Canada which guides the National Capital Commission who have the responsibility that you suggest should go elsewhere.

 

[Altair]

How does it help to give responsibility to either of these two entities, neither of which have any authority to appropriate  money?  None of the current residents of the official residences have any authority to arbitrarily undertake renovations or purchase with public funds any furniture, equipment or toys.  To put it in military terms, they're living in PMQs, a bit upmarket PMQ, but government housing just the same.  All the rules necessary are already in place and have been for decades.  From the Official Residences Act to the Management Principles for the Official Residences of Canada which guides the National Capital Commission who have the responsibility that you suggest should go elsewhere.

Guess it doesn't work.

Either way, with the politics being played with these issues, the house is going to need to be torn down before it it ever renovated.

And the Prime Ministers plane is going to be grounded before it's replaced, and whatever Prime Minister this happens to is going to make a great show of flying commercial, even if it is first class.

 

[kratz]

I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.

The Queen...through the GG, is not our dumping ground for political issues we, as Canadians, are able to deal with ourselves.

 

[captloadie]

I don't think you are wrong.  And if it came to new windows or a roof, you know normal stuff, hell even just some decor befitting a head of state.  But:

$7500 for a swing set.
$5000 golf cart.
$8500 for new boat racks.
$13'000 for a new deck
$4000 to wire a new sauna.
$20'000 to groom ski trails

Again anyone who spends that dollar value on those expenses isn't in tune with the middle class.

I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I want to guess the PMs  $127,187*  $215,398 island vacation trip contributes to a lot of the suspicion surrounding the PM and anytime taxpayers dollars are used for what is or may appear to be personal use. The carbon tax, where actual cost data from an analysis is blacked out, probably doesn't help either. I think I read somewhere it's estimated to cost the average household an extra $5000? Almost enough for a swingset   (But enough for a Nemesis Vanquish!)

Agree upkeep costs a lot of money and it's obvious why PMs in the past didn't want to risk the whole game of "Ah ha gotchya!" which isn't fair to the PM in all honesty but this government isn't doing itself any favors either when it comes to being shady.

Once again a 15 second response in parliament could have took the wind out of conservative sales and forced us to dig a little deeper for the outrage of the week.





* https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bahamas-vacation-rcmp-1.4286033  - Trudeau's Bahamas vacation cost over $215K — far more than initially disclosed

 

[PuckChaser]

Guess it doesn't work.

Either way, with the politics being played with these issues, the house is going to need to be torn down before it it ever renovated.

And the Prime Ministers plane is going to be grounded before it's replaced, and whatever Prime Minister this happens to is going to make a great show of flying commercial, even if it is first class.

How is this any different from the politics played by the Liberals for "full life cycle" costing on the F-35 that scuttled the purchase, or cancelling the EH101 delaying Sea King replacements for 20 years?

Asking Canadian politicians to not use needed expenses (military or heritage homes) for political points is like asking a leopard to change its spots.

 

[CountDC]

I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

but how many of them are actually paying for these items rather than going into debt for them?  According to some reports the middle class is heavily in debt and sinking.


I have the view point that yes we need to maintain these places and it is well overdue but this is beyond that.

swing set - I lived in PMQs and rented places.  I also bought a swing set for my kids (a lot cheaper) and installed them myself.  My landlords didn't pay for the installation.  Serving future PMs is a maybe and really has no bearing as it is still his choice to have it. Maybe the next PM will insist it is a hazard and have it removed as it became termite infested and is falling apart.
golf cart. - as someone mentioned this is an active family so why do they need a $5k golf cart.  Walk or pay for it yourself.  Enjoy the active lifestyle.
$8500 for new boat racks - possibly part of the maintenance that was long overdue.
$13'000 for a new deck - again possible if it was done to the original design and not extravagantly changed which most likely happened.  We will pay to restore and you pay for everything you want beyond that.
$4000 to wire a new sauna - not thinking this is maintenance on a house that is so old.  This sounds like an I want this.  Sure you could try it with a landlord but I am betting that if they did agree you are footing the bill and not them.  I wonder how much of the house could have been rewired for that amount.
$20'000 to groom ski trails - nope. Not buying it at all.  ski on the clean and natural snow like so many skiers want.  My sister and her husband loved getting out on the trails first before anyone could groom and ruin it.  According to them real skiers don't want groomed. 

Also middle class is such a wildly loose term as it really isn't the same everywhere.  According to StatsCan in 2016 using 2015 data collected the middle class for overall Canada was $33-130k.  Quite a wide spread.  Then they break it down into areas:

Vancouver - $31-137k
Fort McMurray - $91-297k
Regina - $40-141k
Toronto - $35-147k
Montreal - $29-116k
Thetford Mines - $25-87k
Fredericton - $32-119k
Charlottetown - $30-114k
Halifax - $32-125k
St John's - $35-147k

The PM once described a typical middle-class Canadian family of four as one with $90,000 in household income.

So when talking about the middle class I take it that he is referring to the high end of the scale and not the bottom or even where I am at.

 

[Altair]

This is a very canadian scandal.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In May 2017 the Ottawa citizen wrote an article about the maintance of the place and how over $500'000 went into it in two years.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/bills-at-pms-country-home-add-up-to-nearly-500k

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

1) 13K for a new deck is ridiculous.  Thats gotta be some deck.

2) A city park quality swing set ?  Yup thats on par with the middle class who actually goes to city parks to use those swing sets.

3) I don't know a single person, retired or not, who owns a golf cart.  You do ?

4) I know of 2 quads in my circle.  1 was free from a father to his son, not me.  The other is at our hunting camp.  It was bought in '96 and its held together by prayers and gorilla tape. Oh and our camp was bought in the 70s for less than my 1/2 months pay cheque by my wifes uncle.

5) I have one friend who owns cottage.  Hes a doctor, president of major provincial political party and his wife is a real estate agent.  Cottages are out of reach for the middle class now.  They are well in the neighborhood of a second mortgage now. 

(5 a) We bought a used camper for pennies because we became frustrated at how out of our reach a cottage had become. 

5) None of my friends own a boat, or a dock to tie it up too.

I am not sure we run in the same social/economic standing my friend.  And me and my wife both make excellent pay cheques.  Shes a teacher, and I am a PO2 Storesman.