Professional Envy/Jealousy in the CF...Does it Exist?

[Kiwi99]

Does it?  I have heard the term at work, and on the TV once.  I have not witnessed it in fact, but it may be out there.  If so, how do we prevent it?  And what are the causes of it?  Does it even exist at all?

What do people think?  Lets hear some opinions, but try to keep them focused and intelligent.  I am suspecting that the nature of the replies will answer the question over time.

 

[Yrys]

Does it? 

I'll answer with my civy common sense : is there human beeing in the CF ?

 

[Michael OLeary]

I believe that what some perceive as "professional envy" is simply based on a failure to understand that we are all given the positions we have at the service's requirement.  Differences in individual employment are most often based on factors of coincidence with postings to specific units/bases at particular times rather than anything to do with the individual being specially selected for that time, place and appointment.  That coincidence of time and place of service combined with a schedule of operational and training events that no participant influenced in the first place may lead some to believe they are subject to such "envy".

 

[orange.paint]

Have you ever been placed on a career course ahead of someone who "deserves it more"  :-X?

If you have you would have heard all about professional envy.

 

[armyvern]

There's no professional jealousy when all trades and their work, all enviornments, and all vlountary CF service is recognized for the fact that it is all essential, worthy and required.

Misconceptions are caused by those who don't seem to want to admit that little tidbit.

 

[HItorMiss]

Librarian I disagree, Though everything and everyone has it's use, I think in an institutional sense (IE: Bn life) jealousy occurs sometimes more often then not. Take for instance the case where some young Pte gets a Recce course because he just happens to run into the WO in the hallway and the WO thinks he is a pretty good troop, But in the Pl room the Cpl who has been fighting for that Recce course for 4 yrs now didn't get it because at the time the Coy didn't initially have any slots remaining during course loading. That's just an example and it's happened before of course but that one I just used should not be taken as fact.  Obviously that Cpl is going to be both pissed off and jealous and both for good reason.

 

[armyvern]

HorM,

I'm talking about jealousy between the trades and enviornments that other trades/enviornments display. I could link to some examples if you wish...from posters right in this very thread.

If someone within your trade is getting a course out of turn before you are...that's a trade or Unit problem; not a CF wide professional jealousy one.

 

[HItorMiss]

Right but the simple point is that proffessional jealousy exist no matter what between personel in Bn and even between trades it's a matr of human nature.

 

[armyvern]

Right but the simple point is that proffessional exist no matter what between personel in Bn and even between trades it's a matr of human nature.

And it's not very professional is it? 

 

[aesop081]

I see it everyday.....

People who complain about my trade getting "spec pay" or whine about my aircrew allowance or all of the TD trips

Their verbal jealousy usualy stops when i tell them that they too can remuster to my MOC

 

[HItorMiss]

And it's not very professional is it? 

Human natrure trumps any concept of Proffessionality no matter what.

 

[orange.paint]

HorM,

I'm talking about jealousy between the trades and enviornments that other trades/enviornments display. I could link to some examples if you wish...from posters right in this very thread.

I think jealousy between trades exist.But most of it is due to people not happy in their own trade.For example sitting in a trench up to your armpits in water and seeing a Griffin fly over.How many times do you hear things like "betcha he's going to Timmy's for lunch" of "man I gotta change trades."

Yes everyone has an important job etc.However when your job is sucking,looking at someone Else's PRECIEVED cozy job can definitely cause envy.

Another example as HOM said,sitting in a OP and all of a sudden you have to go meet the rover.When you get down there to meet him you find some snively snot nosed trooper drinking Timmy's.Some people who have been doing the combat role get angry at the fact a young guy,who has no experience is getting "the good go".Or the SQ shop for that matter.

Jealously all stems from:
*how happy you are in your situation
*Your preception of the other guys job (remember your not seeing the crappy side of his job)

As for what HOM said.Maybe the WO didn't just pick the young guy in the hallway.Maybe he was sick of listening to certain CPL's *****.Not saying that for gospel however we see it in our trade all the time.

Many jealous people are the same people that will not help themselves change their current position.

I've been jealous.I'll admit that.I was also bitter and totally unhappy with my situation.So I decided to do everything in my power to change my situation,and currently am happy as I know things are looking good on the horizon.

How about postings?Same deal.You have been begging for a certain posting then you find out someone who don't WANT it is being sent.People then precieve that this person is TAKING their posting.
Its all preception.

 

[armyvern]

Human natrure trumps any concept of Proffessionality no matter what.

No. Unit rivalry is part of maintaining morale and that is NOT a bad thing. Unit rivalry is recognized and respected as just that.

But posts that just slam another trade/enviornment as unworthy, useless etc ad naseum are just unprofessional. That's not jealousy, that's not rivalry, it just plain old wrong and stupid.

Someone actually believing that by the grace of his name being placed into a CPTPO posn outside the wire for example, and his fellow infanteer being placed into a posn on the same CFTPO inside the wire, by persons well above them in the food chain, meaning he could do the job and the other soldier couldn't is just plain wrong. People who tend to think like that, also tend to be the ones who denigrate the voluntary service of other trades and enviornments too. Like me...I got my tours because I was in the right posting at the right time. It certainly wasn't because I was better than anyone else (Sup tech wise) so it sure as heck doesn't mean I'm more worthy either. That's exactly what Mike O'L was talking about here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58567/post-540509.html#msg540509

You are talking about getting pissed off and jealous in specific situations...with specific triggering factors.

I'm talking overall attitudes, carried daily regarding other trades and service. Two totally different beasts.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think the reason interservice rivalry is so prevalent is because one service has no understanding or refuses to understand what another service contributes to the defence of Canada.

 

[armyvern]

I think the reason interservice rivalry is so prevalent is because one service has no understanding or refuses to understand what another service contributes to the defence of Canada.

Exactly the cause of the problem. But the professional thing to do would be to respect the fact that all services/trades are essential, and have a contribution to make and their job to do.

It's when people can't respect that fact that problems and slamming, uniformed posts occur which do nothing but serve cause to ruffle feathers; often intentionally. That is unprofessional.

 

[Sig_Des]

I was talking about this with someone a couple days ago.

You have to identify the 2 different issues here:

1. Jealousy/ Envy/ Rivalry between trades/units/ elements

2. Envy of Professional Development/positions/ promotions between members

Ref the first, there's always rivalry between unitc/elements/trades. Look at HoM and I...we're constantly making fun of each other for our respective jobs. I respect that he has his job, and I like to think vice versa. We kid with each other, same as army/navy/af pers will make fun of each others elements. Now, the problem is when people do it maliciously. There's no reason for that. We all have a different job to do, with different short-term goals, but in the end, it's a team effort.

Kind of like how on a hockey team the forwards and defense will always have rivalries, but in the end, it's all teamwork.

I think the first one is more of a pride issue.

The second one is I think what HoM is more referring to.

This is the one where someone gets promoted, or gets a course, or gets a promotion, when there are others who may be/may feel they are qualified for. This is the one that can cause more problems I think, for cohesion and morale. Will you see it? Absolutely.

Can it be prevented or bypassed? That's an individual question. I think this one is more of a jealousy issue.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Exactly the cause of the problem. But the professional thing to do would be to respect the fact that all services/trades are essential, and have a contribution to make and their job to do.

It's when people can't respect that fact that problems and slamming, uniformed posts occur which do nothing but serve cause to ruffle feathers; often intentionally. That is unprofessional.

Totally agree.

 

[reccecrewman]

It absolutely exists.  Everytime you see a PLQ course come along and the names from the Regiment are submitted, you can always find people b@!&*ing "I can't believe He's on that course when I don't have it yet".  It's always been there and it always will be.  It's human nature that when there's a career course there, and only a few names can be submitted, there's always people who believe that they should be placed at the top of the list.

Quite often, it's time and place and people have a tough time grasping this one.  The Regiment is given so many slots on a course and we have to fill them, but wait - we have a Squadron deployed overseas and another Squadron doing work up training to relieve that overseas Squadron. So now, there's guys that are left in that third Squadron that are going to be course loaded because the other two Squadrons personnel can't be considered.  There was three Troopers on my PLQ course, as well as some Corporal's that may not have been on the course had all three Squadrons been here in Pet.  When that happens, it's up to those young soldiers to take the opportunity handed to them and show what they have. Nevertheless, there are going to be guys in the deployed/deploying Squadrons that are going to be bitter.
That's the way it goes........

Regards

 

[Kiwi99]

I concur with the whole crse issue, can't please everyone after all.  Besides, if someone offeredf me a tour or a crse, I would take the tour.  Admittedly, there may be people that would take the crse, but that is irrelevant.

What about professional jealousy in the sense of refusing to listen to someone who has done something and is trying to pass on the lessons learned from that.  Pride kicks in, and there is the initial denial that someone else knows better.  I believe we are all guilty of it, so anyone who denies it is a liar.  But I believe that this type of professional jealousy is the most damaging and controversial.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Sometimes there is a Perceived envy, more along the lines someone feels they see envy from others for what they have done.

You then see the person trying to force a discussion to prove his fantasy is true, and that all are jealous of what he or she has done.

Take this thread and this poster  his God Syndrome and his weakness allowed him to go off the deep end, when in fact he could have offered much to all of us with his experience.

Instead, he was angry when people couldn't stand his asinine views, and perceived this as professional envy.

dileas

tess