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"Project Inclusion" to cut board photos in holistic effort to promote diversity

garb811

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Dimsum said:
Good point.  Although the CM trade would probably be neck-in-neck with the MP trade as the most hated trade in the CAF  ;)
Imagine what it's like for the MP career managers.  :rofl:

 

Good2Golf

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garb811 said:
Imagine what it's like for the MP career managers.  :rofl:

Double-Mark of Cain! ;D
 

Eye In The Sky

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dapaterson said:
In France, Career Manager is its own occupation.  They are trained to do the work, and less subject to regimental / branch mafias pulling favours.

Is that the sort of model we should be looking at adopting?

I would say a huge "yes" to that, personally.  Keep MOSID *advisors* in the picture, but the current way of doing business can certainly be improved upon.
 

dapaterson

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Part of the problem with the current model is that the planning / decision cycle starts as the newly posted CMs just arrive; by the time DGMC can deliver the training they should have, they're most of the way through their first posting cycle.
 

dimsum

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dapaterson said:
Part of the problem with the current model is that the planning / decision cycle starts as the newly posted CMs just arrive; by the time DGMC can deliver the training they should have, they're most of the way through their first posting cycle.

So then, the CM MOSID would eliminate that problem, right?
 

Good2Golf

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CMs should be pulled in out of cycle and the losing unit gets a ‘we’re sorry’ credit for taking one for the team. :nod:
 

dapaterson

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Dimsum said:
So then, the CM MOSID would eliminate that problem, right?

Assuming the MOSID training is delivered on time and we aren't A/WSE everyone to make up for personnel production shortfalls.

Of course, if well designed, could a Career Administration Support Technician (CAST?) or HRA - CM (HRA sub-occ) occupation or sub-occ be largely employed remotely?  Could we enable that sort of flexibility so, for example, a service couple could have geographic flexibility and not be glued to Carling campus for 25 years?
 

daftandbarmy

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dapaterson said:
Assuming the MOSID training is delivered on time and we aren't A/WSE everyone to make up for personnel production shortfalls.

Of course, if well designed, could a Career Administration Support Technician (CAST?) or HRA - CM (HRA sub-occ) occupation or sub-occ be largely employed remotely?  Could we enable that sort of flexibility so, for example, a service couple could have geographic flexibility and not be glued to Carling campus for 25 years?

Of course the right solution for the future lies in the AI enabled HR future. While we still talk of career managers, a 50 year old HR concept, and other seat of the pants decision making approaches, others are exploring the new killer app:

AI In HR: A Real Killer App

"Most management decisions we make today are done by the seat of our pants. If these systems make us a little smarter we can possibly improve our operations tremendously.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshbersin/2018/06/18/ai-in-hr-a-real-killer-app/#47b097dc48f1
 

Navy_Pete

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dapaterson said:
Part of the problem with the current model is that the planning / decision cycle starts as the newly posted CMs just arrive; by the time DGMC can deliver the training they should have, they're most of the way through their first posting cycle.

If universities and colleges can figure out how to deliver entire programs, and we can do staff college online, surely we can onboard future CMs with some online training before they show up. Pretty easy to post someone in early and put them on training/do turnover before the planning decision cycle when it's for the people that do the postings. If it's like most courses, it's a week of training packed into two, but usually helpful to figure out the lingo and whatnot before getting fired into the breech, and not waiting until the train has sailed until you do the mandatory training....

(Figured I'd jam as many mixed metaphors in there as feasible to maximize the synergies)
 

NavalMoose

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This may be overly simple but how about having a system that requires the member to pass certain requirements for their next rank and when they are met, the member goes on a roster for their trade with the date they passed.  When the CAF requires a MCPL RSM Clerk or whatever, whoever is at the top of the list gets promoted first. This would cut out the huge amount of time spent on PERs...if Cpl Bloggins passed for MCpl before Cpl Smith, then he/she gets promoted first.
 

dapaterson

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"First past the post" instead of "greater potential and experience" is not the sort of organization that would inspire greatness.
 

Navy_Pete

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Because ticking a box maybe isn't the best indicator that they can do the next job, or they would do it any better then the person that ticked the box the day after them? There are pretty good reasons why people reach a terminal rank and never get promoted after hitting eligibility. Plus that would be massively demotivating, and people would focus just on ticking the boxes ASAP.

Our PER system is a bunch of work (for at least once a year), but I think that, generally speaking, people that deserve to get promoted do. Hard for the really small trades, where someone basically has to retire for promotions to trickle down, and lots of stories for people getting screwed when there were promotion freezes on, but outside that, the mechanics of the process are reasonably effective at identifying and promoting capable people. The current PERs are still way easier then the previous system, and I'm sure they may be other alternates to the current format, but think that overall what we do works.

The article is about the US getting rid of the pictures after finding out it resulted in people being discriminated against in the results (even if only from unconscious biases, or judging based on looks instead of actual performance), which isn't something we do. Would be interesting to see what would happen if we replaced the names on the files with some kind of placeholder, but honestly not really sure it would matter with how we run promotion boards. If someone has an axe to grind, it's going to be obvious if the score is way out of range for the unaffiliated board members scoring of the file, and there aren't a lot of discretionary points after you compile the PERs anyway.
 

Underway

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Navy_Pete said:
The article is about the US getting rid of the pictures after finding out it resulted in people being discriminated against in the results (even if only from unconscious biases, or judging based on looks instead of actual performance), which isn't something we do. Would be interesting to see what would happen if we replaced the names on the files with some kind of placeholder, but honestly not really sure it would matter with how we run promotion boards. If someone has an axe to grind, it's going to be obvious if the score is way out of range for the unaffiliated board members scoring of the file, and there aren't a lot of discretionary points after you compile the PERs anyway.

The photo in the file of the US promotion system was in many cases the only criteria that the board had time to evaluate.  I know at least two US cross pols, who on have told me that their promotion board to Lt Col consisted of the file being opened, the photo looked at and a few particulars of their career being picked out before their file was plopped onto the "to be promoted" pile.  It took all of 45 seconds.  Similarly to Maj as they have sat those boards.
 

Navy_Pete

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Underway said:
The photo in the file of the US promotion system was in many cases the only criteria that the board had time to evaluate.  I know at least two US cross pols, who on have told me that their promotion board to Lt Col consisted of the file being opened, the photo looked at and a few particulars of their career being picked out before their file was plopped onto the "to be promoted" pile.  It took all of 45 seconds.  Similarly to Maj as they have sat those boards.

Heard the same; explained a few people I met, and why someone would pay a pro thousands for a promotion headshot. (also why someone would send their new CO an introduction letter in the form of a powerpoint presentation with animated bald eagles and whatnot).
 

Furniture

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Eye In The Sky said:
I would say a huge "yes" to that, personally.  Keep MOSID *advisors* in the picture, but the current way of doing business can certainly be improved upon.

The problem with that approach is that the "advisors" are actually become the CM, and the CM just cuts messages, which makes the "old boys club" a lot more powerful.

I have been told by my CMs for the last 8 years that they can't tell me what the plan is because they haven't gotten it from the SOA yet. So my standard CM interview consists of confirming my "tombstone" data, and being asked if I've considered Algonquin College.

That said, the SOAs have done a reasonable job for most people, most of the time... Though a few have benefitted disproportionately, while others have suffered. 
 

dapaterson

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Professional CMs (in theory) would select based on needs of the service and member aspirations, and not based on SOA perceived "you need this to be the next CAFCWO / CDS".  It would in theory act as a forcing function for occupations and the CAF to understand, set and hold to priorities.

 

MJP

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Navy_Pete said:
(also why someone would send their new CO an introduction letter in the form of a powerpoint presentation with animated bald eagles and whatnot).

If it is the young Naval officer that sent it, I lost that PowerPoint in a USB washer dryer disaster.  Such a great PowerPoint!!
 

dapaterson

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Nowhere near as good as The RCR meal change email chain that resulted in CFNOC sending a warning to all the CAF to stop forwarding it.
 

Navy_Pete

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MJP said:
If it is the young Naval officer that sent it, I lost that PowerPoint in a USB washer dryer disaster.  Such a great PowerPoint!!

That's the one; think it's still on duffleblog somewhere. Honestly didn't know those were even a thing, so was a learning experience. Remember from the comments that she's apparently reasonably good, but that presentation was pretty legendary, and all kinds of clownshoes. In theory we have that custom, but not sure if anyone does it really (and if they do, it's on nice paper with a fountain pen).

The only comparable CAF one I've seen involved the rations scheduling request, an outlook calendar and a use of MS paint.
 
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