Promotion to Cpl

[ArmyRick]

Thats fair. I have a very jurassic view on the rank of corporal and what it should mean/imply. When someone is promoted to cpl I always take them aside to explain how important their rank is and the importance of being an NCO. Its an incredible responsibility etc..

They're polite enough not to roll their eyes infront of me

We have similar views on this issue

 

[ArmyRick]

My Squadron CWO agrees with advanced promotions, so do all the Sgt/WO/MWOs. I hold regular 1 on 1 with WOs/MWOs and officers, and hold meeting with every other rank levels in group settings and that was never raised as an issue. I will ask specifically in my next set of meetings with them.

I have led north of 200 people at any given time for many years, in various trades (mostly but not all RCAF). I think I have at least some relevant experience in leading people.

I get where you are coming from. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Timmy!]

It might have changed, but in the 90’s for the Res, it was two years plus QL4 qualification.

It was the same for me in the 2001.

 

[Quirky]

I get where you are coming from. We can agree to disagree.

Advance promoting, in the RCAF anyway for tech trades, was mostly done for QOL yes but also for offsetting the technical responsibilities people held. Had very little to do with actual leadership considering Cpl is pretty much 100% guaranteed. I’ve seen people promoted too soon in the later ranks that do more damage.

 

[CountDC]

I feel that the advance promotion needs to be earned and not just a give me. The current Avr we have will be done at the 3 years unless he majorly screws up in the next few months. So far he has excelled and is deserving. The prior Avr waited 4 years.

 

[MJP]

I feel that the advance promotion needs to be earned and not just a give me. The current Avr we have will be done at the 3 years unless he majorly screws up in the next few months. So far he has excelled and is deserving. The prior Avr waited 4 years.

Until they harmonized PRes and RegF policies my thoughts are that the RegF should just be mass advanced promoting folks to Cpl. Easy QoL and acknowledges the experience a RegF Pte has gained over their PRes brethren that is within current policy restraints.

Above Cpl I agree advanced promotions are earned.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I feel that the advance promotion needs to be earned and not just a give me. The current Avr we have will be done at the 3 years unless he majorly screws up in the next few months. So far he has excelled and is deserving. The prior Avr waited 4 years.

Until they harmonized PRes and RegF policies my thoughts are that the RegF should just be mass advanced promoting folks to Cpl. Easy QoL and acknowledges the experience a RegF Pte has gained over their PRes brethren that is within current policy restraints.

Above Cpl I agree advanced promotions are earned.

Essentially, it stands now within the institution is that Cpl is viewed as another Pte incentive level and not a merit based leadership position. Its wrong, it always has been wrong, and I don't agree with it in the slightest.

I always am clear with my troops that get their second hook that there is a difference between a Corporal and a Two-Hook private. I expect them to behave as a Corporal and lead with the full weight of the rank they hold.

My opinions aside, the direction I have received from upon high when it comes to Adv Promotion for Cpls is essentially "give me a reason not to" and it has to be documented in the form of adverse Feedback Notes, Administrative Action, or a conduct sheet.

For other ranks, including AWSE, its "give me a reason to" and requires the meat of why this person is ready to fill the higher rank; not just that there is a vacancy.

 

[CountDC]

Until they harmonized PRes and RegF policies my thoughts are that the RegF should just be mass advanced promoting folks to Cpl. Easy QoL and acknowledges the experience a RegF Pte has gained over their PRes brethren that is within current policy restraints.

Above Cpl I agree advanced promotions are earned.

advance promotions shouldn't just be acknowledging a few years of experience, it is to ack the member excels above their peers. Reg F already screwed up the acting lacking by giving them to everyone. Almost every mcpl and above I have known were acting lacking at each level. No need to compound it by messing up the advance promotions too.

 

[MJP]

advance promotions shouldn't just be acknowledging a few years of experience, it is to ack the member excels above their peers. Reg F already screwed up the acting lacking by giving them to everyone. Almost every mcpl and above I have known were acting lacking at each level. No need to compound it by messing up the advance promotions too.

Meh, maybe the institution should not have vastly differing policies on when someone reaches the rank of Cpl. No one can convince me that a PRes soldier with a few months of experience over 2 years is more deserving than a Pte in the RegF with 3 years of full time experience. Make it all 3 years or some other arbitrary date for all and remove the silliness of two promotion policies. We have seen several initiatives over the years to reduce the policies that affect PRes folks compared to the Reg F as part of total/one force alignment. I get the arguments you and others are making wrt earned vs gimme but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. We should not have a promotion policy that unfairly advantages the PRes over the RegF

 

[CountDC]

Meh, maybe the institution should not have vastly differing policies on when someone reaches the rank of Cpl. No one can convince me that a PRes soldier with a few months of experience over 2 years is more deserving than a Pte in the RegF with 3 years of full time experience. Make it all 3 years or some other arbitrary date for all and remove the silliness of two promotion policies. We have seen several initiatives over the years to reduce the policies that affect PRes folks compared to the Reg F as part of total/one force alignment. I get the arguments you and others are making wrt earned vs gimme but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. We should not have a promotion policy that unfairly advantages the PRes over the RegF

I do agree that the promotion periods should match- 3 or 4 years for both. Stop the overuse of advance and acting promotions. There are other things in the reserve compared to regular force promotions that need to be fixed too (if not done already). Leadership also needs to start doing their part and stop promoting people just because. Worked at one unit that promoted everyone up to sgt as long as they had the courses, time in and there was a position open. Didn't matter that they were useless.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Just to stir the pot and raise people's BP, maybe get rid of the MCpl appointment and go back to a L/Cpl promotion and Cpl promotion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just to stir the pot and raise people's BP, maybe get rid of the MCpl appointment and go back to a L/Cpl promotion and Cpl promotion.

I was going to say the same thing sort of.

Make corporal a true junior NCO rank again. Give cpls pay to ptes for QOL, MCpl pay to cpl, get rid of MCpl. If someone wants to stay a troop forever with no leadership responsibilities then let them stay at pte(4) or pte(6) or something.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was going to say the same thing sort of.

Make corporal a true junior NCO rank again. Give cpls pay to ptes for QOL, MCpl pay to cpl, get rid of MCpl. If someone wants to stay a troop forever with no leadership responsibilities then let them stay at pte(4) or pte(6) or something.

I agree, at least in the combat arms. We need lots of experienced, self starting Troopers and Cpls. I've known more than a few that are happy as pigs right where they're at. Being forced onto a leadership course is a waste of time and money.

 

[Quirky]

Make corporal a true junior NCO rank again. Give cpls pay to ptes for QOL, MCpl pay to cpl, get rid of MCpl. If someone wants to stay a troop forever with no leadership responsibilities then let them stay at pte(4) or pte(6) or something.

Cpls would need something like 20 pay scales with 'gates' to move up in pay, sorta what the pilots did. Don't know how the Army would do it, but the RCAF could tie it to quals and responsibility. Last pay scale would be something like $100-110K.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Cpls would need something like 20 pay scales with 'gates' to move up in pay, sorta what the pilots did. Don't know how the Army would do it, but the RCAF could tie it to quals and responsibility. Last pay scale would be something like $100-110K.

The same way they do with Lieutenants and Captains

 

[CountDC]

Cpls would need something like 20 pay scales with 'gates' to move up in pay, sorta what the pilots did. Don't know how the Army would do it, but the RCAF could tie it to quals and responsibility. Last pay scale would be something like $100-110K.

If they did that there would be a lot of Sgts dropping rank for the pay increase.

More likely they would simply lower the increases for each pay scale - if 5 pay scales take you from $10 to $18 an increase of $2 for each and they changed it to 10 scales they would increase it by about 0.89 each instead.

 

[Quirky]

If they did that there would be a lot of Sgts dropping rank for the pay increase.

I don't think so. Sgts are already just under $100k and many of them are in the latter states of their career. I don't believe you'll get many who want to drop to Cpl just to turn wrenches. Easier to get promoted to WO which is essentially the same job with more meetings and leadership noises. Keeping Cpls on the floor to be your SMEs while compensating them properly over 25 years, up to $100-110k with the proper qualifications, will only help squadrons with serviceability rates. Right now the only way to get more money is to get promoted, which means all your experience will eventually be gone, then the cycle starts over again. If Squadrons were Airlines they'd be bankrupt a long time ago.

 

[CountDC]

I don't think so. Sgts are already just under $100k and many of them are in the latter states of their career. I don't believe you'll get many who want to drop to Cpl just to turn wrenches. Easier to get promoted to WO which is essentially the same job with more meetings and leadership noises. Keeping Cpls on the floor to be your SMEs while compensating them properly over 25 years, up to $100-110k with the proper qualifications, will only help squadrons with serviceability rates. Right now the only way to get more money is to get promoted, which means all your experience will eventually be gone, then the cycle starts over again. If Squadrons were Airlines they'd be bankrupt a long time ago.

Not every sgt wants the additional leadership and would be happy to spend their last few years without the hardship/hassle while increasing their pay. Regular Sgts are at $88.5k so yes some would certainly be happy to increase their pay by $21k a year. If it was me I would as it also increases the pension during the end of career. A Regular WO tops at $95.5k so would still be making $14.5k less than the cpl. MWO is at $106.8K, CWO is at almost $117k. You have to be Spec 1 Sgt to get just under $100k and most are not spec pay. Special Forces and SAR do have multiples - 17 and 14 that could be mirrored at a lower level.