Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[nurse sarah]

Nurses are Lt's straight after graduation (school is our trades training) and captains 3 years later.

(I'm just guessing that NO hopeful means nursing officer?)

 

[Gunner98]

http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/011-06_e.asp

CFAO 11-6 -- COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY -OFFICERS -REGULAR FORCE

Appx 1 to Annex A (for General Service Officers) and Annex B (Specialist Offr occupations of which Nursing Officer is one)outlines the training standards for promotion to Lt.

Excerpt
ANNEX A, APPENDIX 1 - TRAINING STANDARDS FOR PROMOTION TO LIEUTENANT

OFFICER OCCUPATION        TRAINING COMPLETED

    ARMD                ARMD Phase IV

    ARTY                ARTY Phase IV

    INF                INF Phase IV

    ANAV                Wings Standard

    PLT                Wings Standard

    AERE                AERE Phase IV

    CELE                CELE Land/Air BASIC

    LEME                LEME Phase IV

    MARE                MARE Phase IV

    MILE                MILE Phase IV

    PE&R            PE∧R Basic Course (Officer)

    ATC                ATC Basic Course Phase II and unit facility rated "competent"

    AWC                AWC Basic Course and certification as operationally ready

    FLE                FLE Course (for type of aircraft applicable for initial employment)

    PAFF                On-job training

    LOG                Specialty Qualification following Basic LOG Officer Course

    MARS                Certificate of Competency Level 1

    PADM                Personnel Administration Officer-Basic Course

    POST                Obtain 76A Qualification

    SECUR              Basic Security Officers Course

    INT                Basic Intelligence Officers Course

Annex B - excerpt

This annex prescribes additional provisions applicable to the promotion of an officer of a Specialist
officer MOC (Dental, Dental Associate, Medical, Medical Associate, Nursing, Chaplain (P), Chaplain (RC), Pharmacist, Pastoral Associate (RC) Legal, Music Social Work, Personnel Selection and Training Development).

Excerpt - COMMISSIONING AS SECOND LIEUTENANT OR PROMOTION TO LIEUTENANT
3.    Commissioning in the rank of second lieutenant or promotion to the rank of lieutenant is governed by the following:

    a.  ROTP or UTPM.  Annex A applies except that the officer shall be
          commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
          promotion to the rank of lieutenant.

    b.  DOTP.  The officer will be commissioned in the rank of second
          lieutenant effective the date of enrolment less any period of
          leave without pay on enrolment.

    c.  MOTP.  The officer will be -

          (1)  commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant effective the
              date of enrolment less any period of leave without pay on
              enrolment, and

          (2)  promoted to the rank of lieutenant the date the officer
              commences internship.

    d.  Nursing Officer (except ROTP and UTPM graduates).  The officer
          will be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant on
          successful completion of BOTC with simultaneous promotion to
          lieutenant.  The effective date of commissioning and promotion
          will be the date of enrolment less any period of leave without
          pay on enrolment.

    e.  CFRP.  A candidate selected for commissioning as a Specialist
          Officer under the CFRP whose rank is warrant officer or below and
          who has not completed the Senior Leaders Course (SLC) will be
          commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
          promotion to the rank of lieutenant on successful completion of
          the required basic officer training.  Commissioning will be
          effective the date of successful completion of the basic officer
          training.

Note:  Medical Associate is Bio Sci.  HCAs are not Specialist Officers they are GSO.

 

[csharding]

Hey Guys, I was just looking in to career progression and rank promotion as an Air Combat Systems Officer (former ANAV).  Now I know I'm a young officer (still an OC with a year left in school) but I was wondering if there were any links to regulations for promotions and such.  I have the pay scales (though I don't totally understand what's going on there) but I haven't been able to find anything on time in and merit boards etc.  My impression is that the first few (up to Captain) come for time in and being a god little officer but I was wondering what comes after, what sort of stuff are they looking for when you get to those boards.  Any official links would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott

 

[SupersonicMax]

You'll get LOTS of info when your career manager comes and talk to you, as soon as you go to the nav school, or hit your first operational unit.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

being a god little officer

The scales I'm looking at say you shouldn't feel like that for at least another 6 months.........[aww,..come on, it was too good to let go by]

 

[George Wallace]

:-\

CFAO 49-12 gives the big picture (time in rank).

LFCO 29-12 has the course requirements by MOC, but there are a lot of "TBIs".  To be honest I found the chart hard to understand and came away knowing less...

 

[prima6]

Like Max said, you'll get lots of information from your career manager, but you won't see him until after you finish the ACSO course at 1CFFTS and are assigned to a community and even then it won't be until the career manager is visiting your unit.

I can't access any of the CFAOs from home, but when I'm back at work on Tuesday I can see about finding any links, etc. to relevant information on the merit boards.  You should be aware that different trades have different promotion requirements depending upon a multitude of factors.  As an ACSO Capt you'll need at least 3 of your last 5 PERs to have a promotion recommendation of Immediate.  Whether you get an immediate depends on how you rank on your unit.  From my experience usually the top 25-30% will get an immediate.  Obviously here we get into one of the ways in which the PER system isn't perfect as you could be on a unit with a lot of stellar people and not make the cut, whereas there may be another unit where you would have but you still don't have an immediate.  Also, it is fairly common that when you go to a new unit with an immediate from your last unit that you drop to ready on your first PER at the new unit.  This is part of why the 3 of 5 thing is built in.  How the PER system works (or doesn't work depending on your POV) is the subject of a book, but you may have already had some instruction on it, will get more on your ab initio ACSO course (whatever that course is) and there will be lots to learn by osmosis and by having to actually write PERs as a supervisor.

Once you get to the merit board you'll be ranked.  You may have heard of getting points for different courses and qualifications so this is where that becomes important.  Many things are assigned points such as degrees, EXPRES exemption, OPME, AFOD, second language profile, some courses (eg ASC, SANC for ACSO), etc.  The merit board looks at this and other things are ranks all those files that make it to the board.  Then it comes down to how many promotions are available and where you ranked. 

 

[OldPW]

The actual answer is a bit more technical than PMedJoe's respons.  The para ref'd relates to the slotting process on promotion.  While it is not really noticeable for most NCM pay rates (with the exception of spec trades on prom to CWO), when a member gets promoted, there is an automatic right to a minimum pay raise of at least the difference between PI Basic and PI 1 of the new rank.  Since most NCM raises are worth more than  that, the member goes to PI Basic in the new rank.  For officers, it is much more common to get "slotted" into a PI greater than basic in the new rank.

The formula is basically:
Rate of pay on day prior to prom date + (New rank PI 1 - new rank PI Basic) = XXXX.XX
PI on Prom must be at least equal to but not less than XXXX.XX
So if the formula above comes to 4853.00 for example, and a Capt PI 1 = 4851.00, the member would be slotted at PI 2, the nearest PI that is not less than the formula. (these are not actual rates, just a visual example)

So let's say that the Capt was prom on 1 May and got PI 2.  In Sep, the pay raise comes in for 1 Apr.  You would redo the formula above, and verify the entitlement again.  If, because percentages favour members with higher starting salaries, the result of the calculations is now:
Formula above = 5013.00 and the new Capt PI 1 = 5013.00, than the member would be retroactively slotted to PI 1 vice the PI 2 originally granted.  The member does not merely get the new pay raise for Capt PI 2.

While the numbers are pulled out of thin air for the purpose of the explanation, this is an actual result of CBI 204.075, and this did in fact happen to several jr officers in '06 or '07.

 

[PMedMoe]

The actual answer is a bit more technical than PMedJoe's respons.

PMedMoe, thanks. 

 

[OldPW]

PMedMoe.  My apologies, should have edited one last time.  No offense intended.

 

[PMedMoe]

None taken. 

 

[oldandgrey]

I have done reseach on this subject already but there is this confustion between another officer and myself. here is my question.

when does someone get promoted from OCdt/NCdt to 2Lt or higher? the policy state once one finish basic officer training. those this mean after BOTC or after Phase 4 (DP1.2). and can you pass on to me the location of the policy that clearly state which crs that one get promoted.

Thank you

 

[gcclarke]

I have done reseach on this subject already but there is this confustion between another officer and myself. here is my question.

when does someone get promoted from OCdt/NCdt to 2Lt or higher? the policy state once one finish basic officer training. those this mean after BOTC or after Phase 4 (DP1.2). and can you pass on to me the location of the policy that clearly state which crs that one get promoted.

Thank you

It should be after completion of your BMOQ course. I'll try to dig up the reference tomorrow at work.

 

[DIESEL 007]

hello, while on my NOAB course it was made clear to me that under the CEOTP a Ncdt does not receive his/her commission until the completion of their MOC training, for me that means: BMOQ, NETPO, MARS III and MARS IV, this will take anywhere from 1.5 to 2 years depending on gaps in training.  A DEO officer will be promoted directly after completion of their BMOQ.  This is straight from two of the board members involved in personnel selection and training from Ottawa.  It was hard for me to hear that I will only make 700 a pay for that long, thats a 60% pay- cut!! But it will pay-off in the end.  They also said that once we make our commission the playing field is leveled, we can make sub-Lt./Lt, at the same pace as DEO it wont be held against us, but the 12000 less that we will make in that time is their way of saving the money to pay for our schooling.

 

[gcclarke]

Hmmmm from what I can find on the DIN and on some older forums on this site discussing the issue, it appears that I was incorrect.

And yeah, I would say those two board members have a much better idea of how the CEOTP program works than I do. I think I was just mistaken as to when some of my former co-workers recieved their commission.

 

[meni0n]

If you go CEOTP internally, you keep your current pay level, just don`t go up in IPC.

 

[oldandgrey]

For my pay, i kept the same pay level as i was in the UT program. however, with RMC backing and requested by RMC is one of the main reason why I switch over from UT to CEOTP. However, following the policy of the CEOTP it seem to me I have been put to the side, i.e. CDA suppose to contact me in ref to ILP which never happen. but i already have a plan in place before i switch over. nevertheless that i am not worry about. its the policy on promotion. everyone has a different ideas on the wording and i want to see if there any thing that set the policy straight. I will continue my research once i finish my crs. 

 

[Jayson Wonder]

hello, while on my NOAB course it was made clear to me that under the CEOTP a Ncdt does not receive his/her commission until the completion of their MOC training, for me that means: BMOQ, NETPO, MARS III and MARS IV, this will take anywhere from 1.5 to 2 years depending on gaps in training.  A DEO officer will be promoted directly after completion of their BMOQ.  This is straight from two of the board members involved in personnel selection and training from Ottawa.  It was hard for me to hear that I will only make 700 a pay for that long, thats a 60% pay- cut!! But it will pay-off in the end.  They also said that once we make our commission the playing field is leveled, we can make sub-Lt./Lt, at the same pace as DEO it wont be held against us, but the 12000 less that we will make in that time is their way of saving the money to pay for our schooling.

Hey Diesel,

I am sure we may have met not that long ago at NOAB 0903. This question is exacly the same as the one I was asking all week. Of course I got varied answers and came back still unclear. After coming back home and going into my CFRC to discus next steps with regards to my offer I was told by the recruiter that upon completion of BMOQ we will become commissioned and promoted to a rank of Acting Sub Ltn. They said that sometimes this ocurrs at St. Jean and if not, shortly after. I was very happy to hear this becasue the financial hardship for myself and family for the short term would probably sink us.

I asked the recuriter if this would be anywhere in writing becasue of all the mixed information I had been givne thus far and they said this was the way it works and it would be clear in my posting message. I was given a verbal offer and picked up a letter with the offer but see not posting message or anything regarding pay scale or rank so I hope to get clarification on this on Tuesday and I need to know to plan because Oct 19th is nto far away.

If anyone has clear info on the actually policy please share.

Thanks,

 

[fireman1867]

I enrolled under CEOTP (2006) and was promoted to 2Lt upon completion of BOTP. Two seperate CEOTP instructions exist I believe you would fall under the new one like me.

 

[DIESEL 007]

JW,

yes im sure we met that week, commander Lahaie and I had a long talk and she seemed to really know what she was talking about... Although I looked and looked for someone at NOTC venture for the single thin stripe of a Ncdt and could not find one.  This and firemans post are uplifting my spirits but a word of advice for you is not to get your hopes up about it, it would be a nice surprise to get the commission then and I will leave it at that.
Hurry up and wait!!
see you next week,

Jay Finlayson