Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[Nauticus]

According to my superiors, this is incorrect. If you are trade qualified to QL5A, have your two years' seniority, and you are not doing an OT as well, there should be no rank relinquishment upon doing a CT to Reg F.

Like really, you do know that not all reservists are one-night-a-week soldiers? Some of us actually work 40 hrs a week in the PRes. A lot of us, as a matter of fact.

If you look up the promotions guidelines, you will see that the rate for being promoted is the same for all ranks other than Private to Corporal (shorter in the Reserves) and MWO to CWO (longer in the Reserves).

I'm not taking anything away from the reserves, but when it takes less time to get promoted from Pte to Cpl, plus less actual training, you can't expect to keep your rank in the reg force. They do take this into account. With that said, if you've proven yourself in the reserves, you may keep your rank should you also complete the other criteria that you mentioned.

The reserves are fantastic at what they do, but I (and in general, the CF) don't equate a part-time role to a full-time role. If you ARE on a full-time contract, that is one of the many variables that they will look at, but if you aren't, a part-time job should not and is not looked at equal to the full time reg force in terms of rank.

 

[George Wallace]

I'm not taking anything away from the reserves, but when it takes less time to get promoted from Pte to Cpl, plus less actual training, you can't expect to keep your rank in the reg force. They do take this into account. With that said, if you've proven yourself in the reserves, you may keep your rank should you also complete the other criteria that you mentioned.

The reserves are fantastic at what they do, but I (and in general, the CF) don't equate a part-time role to a full-time role. If you ARE on a full-time contract, that is one of the many variables that they will look at, but if you aren't, a part-time job should not and is not looked at equal to the full time reg force in terms of rank.

Not all Courses, nor all Trades, in the Reserves get a lower quality of training as you allude to.  There are Trades that get the EXACT SAME training as the Regular Force, and in some cases better.  So don't fool yourself with the idea that Reservists get less training and experience.  Every QL5A Crse I have instructed on has been made up of both Reg and Reserve candidates, all meeting the same required levels as laid out in the QL5A TP.  There is only one QL5A TP in this Trade and it is for both Reg and Reserve.  Not all Trades are the same, so do not GENERALIZE all as being lesser than the Reg Force.

At the same time, there are getting to be some huge "training deltas" being developed in other Trades that really leave the Reservists in that Trade totally liking in the skills required of Reg Force Members in that Trade.  Armour is one such Trade, where the lack of Vehs, Radios, and Wpns of the type used by their Regular Force counterparts has created a whole lack of "trained Reservists" to create a pool to draw from.  An unfortunate situation of lack of money and equipment to properly equip the Regular Force, let alone the Reserves.

So take the fol as good advice:

No body can say for sure whether you will retain your rank with a CT. When I did I had 4 years as a Reserve. 2 1/2 full time and several deployments with the RegF. I lost it all and went in as an OD with QL3 and one year towards seniority. Today it all depends on what the Occupation Manager decides you will be offered. I don't know what the criteria are for each individual trade but I'm sure it will all depend on your training, time in and of course the most important thing, "needs of the service"!!

 

[justwinbaby]

I was talking to a recruiter the other day and he said that since i have not finished my degree, to join as a mars officer i would have to sign a 9 year commitment and complete my degree in that time.  Sounds fair, but my main concern is I am currently a civilian Captain and do not want my Transport Canada rating to expire while i am serving my country, nor do i want to get out in 9 years and find out my sea time doesn't translate. 

Some of you may be thinking why would a Captain want to start fresh again. basically because i need job security/good pension and military training is superior.  I know with my current training I will excel in MARS school but my question to you is, is doing university school while in the service hard?, or are you provided free time? And what sort of promotions could i be looking forward to during my 9 years?  I was told that it is capped at Sub-LT, but i noticed there is lots of pay grades within that rank. Thanks for your time and answers

 

[Acer Syrup]

Lots of threads on MARS and the training... if you have already started a degree you could be eligible for CEOTP. Which would be 13 year VIE. Also a thread on MARS and Civilian equivalencies. My watch officer on the NOAB was civilian trained as well... He said he had a hard time adjusting to the Navy way of doing things and failed MARS III. He reprogrammed himself the Navy way and was good to go. Rank is different for everyone... I deducted that on average most MARS reach Lt(N) in about 4/5 years. As CEOTP you would be Pay Level B and increments go up by years served in that rank.

Make sure you research your entry plan and it is right for you... On the last NOAB there was a guy there 18 with no post secondary education and the CFRC had him there for CEOTP and a engineering candidate that had a degree not suitable for his desired MOC. Both were not offered positions. Personally I think these are gross errors and they should have never been lead down that certain path.

 

[MMSS]

"Rank is different for everyone... I deducted that on average most MARS reach Lt(N) in about 4/5 years."

What I have gleaned so far from the various threads is that upon reaching one year past enrollment a MARS A/Slt officer is eligible for automatic promotion to Slt with subsequent automatic promotion to Lt(N) after 3 years. Eligible meaning it does not necessarily happen immediately. Caveat: I have not yet been accepted, or completed BMOQ, or passed NOAB. Further caveat is that my desired path would be DEO. But FWIW that's what I had picked up on.

 

[Zoomie]

Eligible meaning it does not necessarily happen immediately.

Normal rank progression occurs 99% of the time - once you are qualified for your next rank, you get promoted.  The only way that this would not happen is if you were a complete screw up and your CO made huge efforts to block it.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

"Rank is different for everyone... I deducted that on average most MARS reach Lt(N) in about 4/5 years."

What I have gleaned so far from the various threads is that upon reaching one year past enrollment a MARS A/Slt officer is eligible for automatic promotion to Slt with subsequent automatic promotion to Lt(N) after 3 years. Eligible meaning it does not necessarily happen immediately. Caveat: I have not yet been accepted, or completed BMOQ, or passed NOAB. Further caveat is that my desired path would be DEO. But FWIW that's what I had picked up on.

When I went through MARS training, OCTP (the old program that CEOTP replaced) candidates were promoted A/SLt upon successful completion of MARS III and SLt upon successful completion of MARS IV.  DEO were promoted to A/SLt upon successful completion of BOTC (BMOC) and promoted to SLt upon successful completion of MARS IV.  Promotion to Lt(N) generally follows achievement of your Certificate of Competency Level II.  YMMV.

 

[MMSS]

When I went through MARS training, OCTP (the old program that CEOTP replaced) candidates were promoted A/SLt upon successful completion of MARS III and SLt upon successful completion of MARS IV.  DEO were promoted to A/SLt upon successful completion of BOTC (BMOC) and promoted to SLt upon successful completion of MARS IV.  Promotion to Lt(N) generally follows achievement of your Certificate of Competency Level II.  YMMV.

That seems logical to me. Commission after BMOQ since I already have a degree, then promotion upon successful completion of seamanship/watchkeeping.

 

[Dipstick]

"Rank is different for everyone... I deducted that on average most MARS reach Lt(N) in about 4/5 years."

What I have gleaned so far from the various threads is that upon reaching one year past enrollment a MARS A/Slt officer is eligible for automatic promotion to Slt with subsequent automatic promotion to Lt(N) after 3 years. Eligible meaning it does not necessarily happen immediately. Caveat: I have not yet been accepted, or completed BMOQ, or passed NOAB. Further caveat is that my desired path would be DEO. But FWIW that's what I had picked up on.

As it stands now, you'll be comissioned an A/SLt after BMOQ.  SLt will follow after 1 year as an A/SLt, and completion of MARS IV.  Lt(N) comes after passing your NOPQ (aka CofC II) board, usually two years later.

If you enter under ROTP, you'll attend school full-time for four years, before serving 5 years obligatory service.  CEOTP allows you to go straight to work, with the understanding that you work toward your degree on your own time.

 

[MMSS]

As it stands now, you'll be comissioned an A/SLt after BMOQ.  SLt will follow after 1 year as an A/SLt, and completion of MARS IV.  Lt(N) comes after passing your NOPQ (aka CofC II) board, usually two years later.

If you enter under ROTP, you'll attend school full-time for four years, before serving 5 years obligatory service.  CEOTP allows you to go straight to work, with the understanding that you work toward your degree on your own time.

thanks!

 

[Navy at Heart]

From Recruiting page:
Phase II: Basic Health Care Administrator Training

Upon successful completion of Phase I, you will be commissioned in the rank of Second Lieutenant or Sub-Lieutenant.

Whichever recruiting page you got that from, you may want to let them know that Second Lieutenant is the equivalent of an Acting Sub-Lieutenant and Lieutenant is the equivalent of Sub-Lieutenant.

 

[captloadie]

For GSO's, there are two separate minimums to be met. First is the training requirement, second is the time in rank. For example, Ocdts are promoted to Slt, and should serve one year in that rank. After the one year, if the prerequisite training is complete, they are promoted. If the training is not completed, due to CF reasons, then once it is completed, the promotion and pay will be back dated to that one year point.

As this post is in the medical group forum, all that goes out the window, as each MOSID seems to have a different criteria.

Edited for spelling and clarity

 

[Pusser]

Last time I checked, there were over 100 different ways to enter the CF as an officer.  All of them effect pay and promotion OCdt through to Captain.  Is it any wonder that junior officers' pay is often screwed up?  The point is that there is not easy answer to the OP's original question, other than, "it depends...."

Having said that, for general service officers, (which is almost everybody, including HCAs), you can expect to spend three to four years progressing from OCdt to Captain (not counting any time spent in university under ROTP).  Once you make Captain, all future promotions are based on merit and only can determine how long that will take.

Specialist officers (e.g. lawyers, doctors, dentists) have different rules that can vary significantly.

 

[clericalchronicals]

Woooo...clerk intervention...clerk intervention...lol.

Okie dokie, so the CT rank and qualification question...eep.  Lets start off by breaking it up...two items...first, rank.

CMP Released a policy some time ago that authorized career managers of distressed occupations to offer CT's to personnel remaining in the same occupation transfer into a "controlled rank" (MCpl/MS +)  example, PRes CPO2 RMS Clerk CT's to the Reg Force as RMS Clerk, the CM needs 3 MWO/CPO2 RMS Clerks, therefore, can offer transfer to the reg force as a CPO2.  Now, let's mix it up a bit.  Same CPO2 CT's but the CM doesn't need any MWO/CPO2 but needs 10 WO/PO1, the CM will offer transfer as PO1 RMS Clerk.

Now...if the occupation is not distressed, lets say, that same CPO2 RMS Clerk would be offered transfer as LS RMS Clerk.

In addition to all that jazz, when the person transfers, they have to courier all of their old PER's to the Reg Force PER Processing Centre in Ottawa to be scanned in.  So, let's say the CPO2 ct'd and was accepted as a CPO2.  They have 5 immediate PER's from their time as a CPO2 in the reserves, good odds they will get promoted to CPO1 the following year.  Obviously depending on promotion forecasts...so on and so forth.

Now for part 2, qualifications...CDA HQ is the authority on ALL qualification, Reg Force and Res Force.  One's off the top of my head that I can promise you are "transferable" qualifications;

BMQ (Can be BRT)
SQ
PLQ (CF PLQ, PLQ-L, JLC, CLC)
ILQ (SLC)

***ALL SUPPORT OCCUPATIONS!!!!!!***  RMS Clerk, Supply Tech, Cook, Steward (although now an Operations Group Occupation).

The more technical occupations are on a case by case basis.  Regardless, ANY qualification can be transferred using a PLAR...Prior Learning Assessment.  Basically, if you are Res Force MP QL5 Qualified, and you CT, you won't be granted MP QL5, but if you submit a PLAR to CDA HQ and you have ResF MP QL5 and two Class C tours to Afghanistan as an MP...well, you can figure it out!

Cheers!

 

[TimBit]

As well, I seem to recall frm reading the policy multiple times that if you hold an uncontrolled rank (Pte, Cpl, 2Lt, Lt, Capt) then you will not lose your rank. Certainly all the officers CT I have seen have followed that rule.

 

[JMesh]

For information on rank protection, you'd want to refer to CF Mil Pers Instr 03/08, para 4.7. Available on page 9 of this document: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/doc/03-08-eng.pdf

 

[clericalchronicals]

TimBit...you are on the money there. Uncontrolled ranks are generally left as is.  The only case is when the member doesn't meet the time prerequisites for that rank (ie.  ResF Cpl after 2 years CT's, they are reverted to Pte on CT).

Cheers!

 

[Celticgirl]

TimBit...you are on the money there. Uncontrolled ranks are generally left as is.  The only case is when the member doesn't meet the time prerequisites for that rank (ie.  ResF Cpl after 2 years CT's, they are reverted to Pte on CT).

Cheers!

No, this is not the case anymore.  I will have 2 years in April, will just be finished my 5's, and will get promoted to Cpl.  A WO at D Mil C (the folks that handle CTs) assured me that I would get my CT offer as a Cpl.  They *cannot* take an uncontrolled rank away, 2 years, 4 years, doesn't matter.  It used to be that they would revert you to Pte if you didn't have the equivalent of 4 yrs in + promotion to Cpl upon transferring to the RegF, but that has changed in the past couple of years.

 

[TimBit]

Wow, so it would then indeed confirm that it is quicker to go reserves and get promoted before going reg force. How odd...

 

[Celticgirl]

Wow, so it would then indeed confirm that it is quicker to go reserves and get promoted before going reg force. How odd...

Yes, and this is a relatively new thing, so I am told.  Our MWO told me the other day, "This is your only freebie...enjoy it."  LOL

People can't always rely on that 2 years, though...it depends a lot of your CoC and how proactive they are (and you as well: keep asking for the career courses you need until you get them).  You need your 5's to get promoted to Cpl in the PRes, unlike the RegF  (more than half the ppl on my upcoming 5's will be Cpls, all RegF).