• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

PTSD blame game questions

FormerHorseGuard

Sr. Member
Reaction score
82
Points
280
I am putting this here just to get some feedback back, not to take away from those who suffer or are living with this mental and physical issue every day we have named PTSD.

History, I had a great uncle, lied about his age to get into WW2, he was 11  when he tried, he failed, he was caught. At 16 he lied and got into the PPCLI and went to Korea,  he was a sniper at age  17, from all accounts I learned upon entering the service myself , my uncle was  very good  at what he did. He was sent home when they found out his real age, sent back to Korea after he turned 18. Former PPCLI vet one Remembrance Day told me about my great uncle and first hand stories. I heard stories from relatives, but never from anyone who served with him, till that day.
He was messed up, he would forget that the war or the western  on tv was just that, not the real thing. My uncle would start shooting his unseen weapon, yelling at the TV for the guys to take cover, he would dive behind the sofa, and spray machine gun fire to cover the troops on TV.  All very entertaining as a kid to watch,  made the movie much more fun, to watch this interaction. Never realized  he was suffering from flashbacks, they called it shell shock back then.

My uncle was never the same, lived in isolation,  drank a lot, never had a normal type job,always up North away from every day  people.  He never got over it, never recovered, never blamed anyone or anything for this life he had. He helped family get jobs in the North, always tried his best to be the relative you could count on, and be kind in his own way.
Earl died alone, from a combination of life style, smoking too much, drinking way too much, and other life style choices.

Here are my questions.
1) Are we blaming too much on PTSD, everything negative in a life iso being blamed on it, meaning in my mind, service in combat, or peace keeping operations when something goes bad in operationall zones, we blame later actions on it and it excused by having PTSD?
2) Do we have to accept personal responsibility for our actions sometimes  and forget the blame game?
3) Do soldiers, sailors,  airforce persons, other first responders require a better mental training,  and strengthing before they sent into action ? I know one shoe does not fit all.
4) Do we as friends bare any blame for letting our buddies suffer in silence and not say anything beyond, have another beer?
5) Does the media own any blame for pushing the PTSD headlines, "Combat vet does.............., PTSD to be blamed"?
6) Does anyone besides  us, being in the CF, or former CF members really care of those who have this mental health or physical illness or is just lip service?
7) Does the person have to accept any personal blame for problem, or does it just happen?
8) Last question is too many people using this as a cover for their actions? I did x and it not my fault I have PTSD from work related events?

I do not expect anyone out there to have all the answers for my questions. I never saw any action personally. I did not mean or want anyone to think I am making light of this serious issue. Just in the last few weeks  I have thought about this and been wondering. If the moderators want to block this or put me on warnings , I understand that I might have pushed the limits here.

Thanks in advance
Opie
 

Bruce Monkhouse

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
2,131
Points
1,260
All good questions.......

I remember posting a few years ago that I'd fire a lawyer on the spot for not suggesting PTSD once he found out I served.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,271
Points
1,060
Bruce Monkhouse said:
All good questions.......

I remember posting a few years ago that I'd fire a lawyer on the spot for not suggesting PTSD once he found out I served.

Brilliant.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
FormerHorseGuard said:
Do soldiers, sailors,  airforce persons, other first responders require a better mental training,  and strengthing before they sent into action ?

I'm not a psychiatrist. I never put in a PTSD claim. So, I am not an expert.

But, I worked permanent full-time from age 18 to my 55th birthday for The City of Toronto on the street responding to 9-1-1 calls. So, I have a few observations and opinions I would like to share.

"A retired chief from Toronto Paramedic Services told us during his interview that, in his opinion, the onus is squarely on the colleges, "so that not only are people going to be successful in the community college program, but within their first year of employment they're not going to fall into difficulties because of this whole issue of PTSD." He noted that, in his experience, there are "too many horror stories" of paramedics that have successfully completed the college program and after their first or second traumatic call, "that's when they find out they're not cut out for it."
http://www.ombudsmantoronto.ca/OmbudsmanToronto/media/Documents/Investigative%20Report/Ombudsman-Report-TPS-November-2015.pdf?ext=.pdf

Effective April of this year, Ontario passed legislation to make PTSD presumptive for police officers, firefighters and paramedics.

What that means is, at least in my department, once a paramedic is off probation, they can be placed ( permanently ) into a "Suitable" job with the City, away from 9-1-1 operations.

This is the important part,

If the pre-injury rate of pay is higher than the relocated position rate, then the pre-injury rate is to be maintained. It is understood that the pre-injury rate is subject to all wage increases negotiated.

From what I understand, there is a very real concern among the departmental chiefs that, with this new legislation, that PTSD claims will "take off like wildfire".

But, again from what I am told, Paramedics are now heard openly saying that they do not intend to work 9-1-1 operations anymore. This is no longer considered a disgrace or dishonourable.

If an honourable path had existed in my day to escape 9-1-1 operations, without an Economic Loss, would I have taken it?

I don't know!  :)





 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
10,441
Points
1,160
I think the research shows that you can't 'inoculate' people against PTSD, in any walk of life, even the 'super soldiers' out there. And if we make it tougher for people to seek help, they seem to kill themselves faster:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/us/politics/wars-elite-tough-guys-hesitant-to-seek-healing.html?_r=0

Like any other medical condition, we need to be good and fast at diagnosis and treatment and recognize that there is no 'one size fits all' solution.

Will there be some who take advantage of the treatment and pensions etc that go along with this condition? Absolutely, just like any 'WCB type' program.

Is that any reason to deny treatments or to criticize those seeking it? Heck no.


 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
daftandbarmy said:
Is that any reason to deny treatments or to criticize those seeking it?

Good point.

The department I worked for ( small in comparison to the CAF ) has a full-time, permanent, in-house staff psychologist to assist members, a position that dates back to 1986.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
10,441
Points
1,160
mariomike said:
Good point.

The department I worked for ( small in comparison to the CAF ) has a full-time, permanent, in-house staff psychologist to assist members, a position that dates back to 1986.

That is exactly what we need IMHO.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
daftandbarmy said:
That is exactly what we need IMHO.

They have all sorts of programs now. A place in North York.

They even get paid lunch breaks now.

If the Paramedic requires additional time after a "difficult" job, s/he "may be excused from duty for up to two (2) consecutive 12-hour shifts following the incident without loss of pay or benefits and without penalty to their sick bank/IIP hours, lieu bank and/or vacation bank."

One thing to keep in mind, the calls keep coming in. If you're not there to do them, your workload will be spread amongst the rest of your platoon.

 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
mariomike said:
One thing to keep in mind, the calls keep coming in. If you're not there to do them, your workload will be spread amongst the rest of your platoon.

Which should be the concern of the Leadership, to manage that, not the person taking a break for mental or Physical health.

This is where people tend to feel guilty, and just "Carry on".  Would you want someone falling, right in the middle of a call, because they were not prepared?  No, neither would the person you are attending to.

Self care.  Clinical help, an Understanding CoC, family, and peer support.  is the Key to mainting a strong worker, and healthy team.


 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,271
Points
1,060
Unfortunately I think a lot of CF members play up PTSD which negatively impacts members who legitimately have it. 

I find the military hijacked PTSD (for themselves) thanks to the media.

Police, EMS, firefighters and corrections officers deal with traumatic events and workplace environments every day.  During the  Afghanistan war the media pushed a soldier+tour=ptsd angle every time one of us were in the news for something bad.  It still constantly gets brought up. 

Example.
The Canadian Forces wouldn’t commit Thursday to examining how it handled an Afghanistan war veteran suspected of killing his family and then himself.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-forces-apparent-murder-suicide-nova-scotia/article33513562/


Maybe we should cut back on all those bloated HQ spots and put more money into the medical system and psychiatrists.
 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Jarnhamar said:
Unfortunately I think a lot of CF members play up PTSD which negatively impacts members who legitimately have it. 

Unfortunately,

I find ignorance like that, caused the callamity we have recently expereinced with one of our own.

:2c:
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
Zebedy Colt said:
Which should be the concern of the Leadership, to manage that, not the person taking a break for mental or Physical health.

That's why they have Overtime!

But, to save the taxpayers money, they only call in enough OT to allow them to meet the minimum car count. The bare minimum.
So, your UHU ( Unit Hour Utilization ) and therefore number of lifts, will increase accordingly.
They talk about mental stress. But, it was the filthy back breaking work that I remember most.
Response Times will also increase with a low car count. That may not concern the crew, but...
Patients, and their families, have a way of taking out their frustrations over Response Times on the crews.

When seconds count, we're 15 minutes away.  :)

I'm not trying to justify it. That's just the way it was.
 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
mariomike said:
That's why they have Overtime!

But, to save the City treasures money, they only call in enough OT to allow them to meet the minimum car count. The bare minimum.
So, your UHU ( Unit Hour Utilization ) and therefore number of lifts, will increase accordingly. They talk about mental stress. But, really it was the filthy back breaking work that I remember most.
Response Times will also increase with a low car count. That may not concern the crew, but...
Patients, and their families, have a way of taking out their frustrations over Response Times on the crews.

When seconds count, we're 15 minutes away.  :)

I'm not trying to justify it. That's just the way it was.

Roger that,

But I reiterate, the onus is on Leadership to deal with it, not the individual in exchange for their health and well being. 

Period.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
Zebedy Colt said:
Roger that,

But I reiterate, the onus is on Leadership to deal with it, not the individual in exchange for their health and well being. 

Period.

I'm sure you read our local papers, Zebedy Colt. When aren't our emergency services unions demanding increased hiring? As a matter of public safety, of course.

All three unions were pretty good at putting the fear of God into the taxpayers.

I don't believe the taxpayers give a F$%# about our mental stress. To them, it's all about response time.
 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
mariomike said:
I'm sure you read our local papers, Zebedy Colt. When aren't our emergency services unions demanding increased hiring? As a matter of public safety, of course.

"Babies will burn!" Remember that ad on the radio?

I also had the privelage to brief your organization, as they were thinking of starting a Peer Support Network of their own.  I put them in touch with a good friend, Vince Savoia, founder of the Tema Conter Memorial Trust, so I know they (Paramedics) are making efforts in Toronto.

However, I stand by my statement, it is not up to the injured to worry about the "Workload spread across the platoon".  That belongs with the Leadership.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,044
Points
1,260
Zebedy Colt said:
Unfortunately,

I find that ignorance like that, caused the callamity we have recently expereinced with one of our one.

:2c:

Jarnhamer is right IMHO.

While no one doubts that we have many in our ranks who need help and struggle with PTSD, in recent times I am becoming more and more bewildered by the amount of my peers who are now diagnosed with PTSD and receiving various forms of treatment. 

Some I am sure struggle with demons and some I highly suspect are simply malingerers and have found an easy and convenient avenue to get more and give less. 
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
Zebedy Colt said:
I also had the privelage to brief your organization, as they were thinking of starting a Peer Support Network of their own.  I put them in touch with a good friend, Vince Savoia, founder of the Tema Conter Memorial Trust, so I know they (Paramedics) are making efforts in Toronto.

I worked a few shifts with Vince. He was fun to work with.

They have had a Peer Support Team since the mid-1980's. There is also EAP and the Staff psychologist.
 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Halifax Tar said:
Jarnhamer is right IMHO.

While no one doubts that we have many in our ranks who need help and struggle with PTSD, in recent times I am becoming more and more bewildered by the amount of my peers who are now diagnosed with PTSD and receiving various forms of treatment. 

Some I am sure struggle with demons and some I highly suspect are simply malingerers and have found an easy and convenient avenue to get more and give less.

Having worked in the Field of Peer support for the Last 9 Years, I can say that Jarnhammer and you are wrong.  Not based on opinion, based on experience.

 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,044
Points
1,260
Zebedy Colt said:
Having worked in the Field of Peer support for the Last 9 Years, I can say that Jarnhammer and you are wrong.  Not based on opinion, based on experience.

We will simply have to agree to disagree.
 
Top