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PTSD extends beyond military vets, mental health conference told

Armymedic

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Good article about the portion of population that has a much higher percentage of PTSD, but gets ignored:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/SOMNIA/9665813/story.html

During my training, I had several patients which had been diagnosed with PTSD, not a single one was or had been a member of the military.

 

medicineman

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I've had or seen my fair share of non-military/emergency services folks with likely or actually diagnosed PTSD...it's a real pain trying to get them proper help, since a lot of the gurus have been hired by the military  ::)...the very same group complaining they don't have enough mental health workers.  There is a rant in the works, so I will stop typing now  :nod:.

MM
 

Armymedic

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I know your rant.


It is ironic that people who are complaining about a lack of mental health services after release, actually would have had better access to professionals if they did not voluntarily release.

P.S.- just because you developed a mental illness while in the service of the Canadian Forces, does not always mean you have PTSD.
 

medicineman

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Rider Pride said:
I know your rant.


It is ironic that people who are complaining about a lack of mental health services after release, actually would have had better access to professionals if they did not voluntarily release.

P.S.- just because you developed a mental illness while in the service of the Canadian Forces, does not always mean you have PTSD.

Agree wholeheartedly...but hey, do you think VAC really cares about your "garden variety" depression or bipolar disease  ::)?  I know the media doesn't...nor do they differentiate either.

MM




 

Goose15

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medicineman said:
Agree wholeheartedly...but hey, do you think VAC really cares about your "garden variety" depression or bipolar disease  ::)?  I know the media doesn't...nor do they differentiate either.

MM

It is very unfortunate that PTSD has become some kind of poster board as you seem to be saying. Not sure if it could be argued that people are simply uneducated about mental health or if PTSD is simply an easier story to write about. While the former is certainly true I tend to lean toward the latter; it is easier to make a whiney news story or attack having an active military than to actually educate oneself and/or the public about what causes mental illness or how it "works". This is especially true as many still do not understand that mental illness is far from black and white (i.e. military service equals PTSD and non-service equals no PTSD). Many people do not realize anything can cause such illnesses - including depression and others as well - it is entirely based on the person and all the factors in the person's "situation" and life.
 

Goose15

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ObedientiaZelum said:
PSTD is becoming as self diagnosed as ADHD is.

I am interested on what you are basing this statement off of. While, I agree some people nowadays claim ADHD when they do not pay attention, is it not reaching a little to say it is the same with PTSD? Not arguing, I am asking.

Also, are you implying (or stating) that psychologists are handing out such diagnoses as if it's the common cold?
 

Armymedic

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Goose15 said:
Also, are you implying (or stating) that psychologists are handing out such diagnoses as if it's the common cold?

Regardless if they were or not, the media's reporting has made it the illness d'jouer for any military member who is suffering from the myriad of mental illnesses. And because of that, it is easier for them blame the military for causing PTSD than explain they have depression or anxiety disorder.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Goose15 said:
Also, are you implying (or stating) that psychologists are handing out such diagnoses as if it's the common cold?

The biggest 'YES' I can muster............
 

Fishbone Jones

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Rider Pride said:
I know your rant.


It is ironic that people who are complaining about a lack of mental health services after release, actually would have had better access to professionals if they did not voluntarily release.

P.S.- just because you developed a mental illness while in the service of the Canadian Forces, does not always mean you have PTSD.

How about those that were involuntarily released? The ones that the military were to lazy to deal with properly. The ones that were released because of their PTSD.

Are they allowed to complain?

As to whether someone does or does not have PTSD, I'll leave that to the professionals in that particular field who have the education and diagnostic tools to make a proper, informed determination.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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RG, I know you and I have had this discussion so I won't rehash that. [unless you're buying again]

But to put this in terms military folks can relate too.......the diagnosis of PTSD/ADHD is the medical equivalent of a '129' to a pissed off Sgt. Major.

"Everything's covered, I look like a genius......"
 

Griffon

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I am interested on what you are basing this statement off of. While, I agree some people nowadays claim ADHD when they do not pay attention, is it not reaching a little to say it is the same with PTSD? Not arguing, I am asking.

There isn't a condition out there that people won't try to self-diagnose. If you look on the 'net you'll find blogs and forums that touch on the subject.  There are even screening quizzes you can do online that people will use to carry out this self-diagnosis.  Of course, it has no weight in the military, but a self-diagnosis may impact how an individual reacts to testing to diagnose PTSD.
 

Jarnhamar

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Goose15 said:
I am interested on what you are basing this statement off of. While, I agree some people nowadays claim ADHD when they do not pay attention, is it not reaching a little to say it is the same with PTSD? Not arguing, I am asking.

Conjecture and personal experience.
I've met a lot of people who state they have PTSD.  However that PTSD wasn't diagnosed by a doctor but rather themselves. You find the same with parents diagnosing their children with ADHD. You will notice on your BMQ course other students diagnosing themselves with shin splints after a run or ruck march when in fact their legs just hurt. Shin splints is a medical condition.
Also, are you implying (or stating) that psychologists are handing out such diagnoses as if it's the common cold?
It's conjecture again but I think they do. Just like ADHD and Oxy prescriptions.

The media has gone to great lengths to make PTSD synonymous with overseas service in the military.
 

Griffon

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How about those that were involuntarily released? The ones that the military were to lazy to deal with properly. The ones that were released because of their PTSD.

Are they allowed to complain?

That's a discussion I could really get into!  If a member isn't medically fit for duty, physically or mentally, then they should be released.  End of story.  It's in the best interest of the institution and its member that this happens, as much as it isn't fair to the individual.  This usually isn't questioned so much with a physical injury, such as the loss of a limb.  Should mental injuries be treated differently from physical injuries? And if so, why? Can every member diagnosed with PTSD be rehabilitated to the point that they can return to service? Can PTSD be cured, or is it something that an individual has to deal with indefinitely?

Is the military the best environment for them to stay in?  I know it's what many sufferers want - it's an environment they are familiar with, they have peers that have shared experiences and all that, so I get the pros for them to stay in.  But in the long run, is it best for the CAF and its other members? How would you best accommodate the injured?

Are the mental health health services offered to those diagnosed with PTSD lacking significantly compared to those with physical injuries?  I don't think that cutting back on the support system, as is happening now, is a responsible or prudent action.  Our vets - both serving and released - need that support to give them a fighting chance at living a semi-normal life, and the evidence is overwhelming that they aren't all getting what they need to do so.  It's a shame.

To answer your question: Yes, sufferers of PTSD have the right to complain, they're paying the price. But, perhaps more importantly, we as a society also have the obligation to listen.
 

Goose15

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
The biggest 'YES' I can muster............

Duly noted.

Griffon said:
Of course, it has no weight in the military, but a self-diagnosis may impact how an individual reacts to testing to diagnose PTSD.

That I will submit to. Unfortunate but true, especially with the sites/blogs you mentioned as they give extra information on what the signs and symptoms.

Rider Pride said:
Regardless if they were or not, the media's reporting has made it the illness d'jouer for any military member who is suffering from the myriad of mental illnesses. And because of that, it is easier for them blame the military for causing PTSD than explain they have depression or anxiety disorder.

When you explain it like that it makes sense, albeit is unfortunate that this is done. I know the military is trying to move away from stigmas associated with mental illness but I guess when trying to bring it up, using a hot button would make it easier.

Edit to note: Not sure why all the quotes say Bruce, double-checked and they are the correct quotes in the preview.
 

Goose15

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ObedientiaZelum said:
Conjecture and personal experience.
I've met a lot of people who state they have PTSD.  However that PTSD wasn't diagnosed by a doctor but rather themselves. You find the same with parents diagnosing their children with ADHD. You will notice on your BMQ course other students diagnosing themselves with shin splints after a run or ruck march when in fact their legs just hurt. Shin splints is a medical condition.

Okay that is fair enough and reasonable comparison that I will agree is justified.

ObedientiaZelum said:
It's conjecture again but I think they do. Just like ADHD and Oxy prescriptions.

The media has gone to great lengths to make PTSD synonymous with overseas service in the military.

Again a justified comparison. Unfortunately the latter is certainly true as well. Luckily, my family members are more aware of the reality but I have had to try and debunk those theories among others.

I appreciate the reply. I was simply interested in your more detailed thoughts.
 

Armymedic

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recceguy said:
How about those that were involuntarily released? The ones that the military were to lazy to deal with properly. The ones that were released because of their PTSD.

Your statement about people being released from the military due to a diagnosis of PTSD because the Canadian Forces was "to lazy to deal with [PTSD] properly" requires substantiation.

Your rant does not negate the initial point: there are civilians who have never served in the military who suffer from PTSD. They all struggle to find help because the resources are just not there.




 

Colin Parkinson

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In the CCG we had a Critical Incident Stress Councilor who broke down and cried everytime we described an incident to her.  ::)

We were amalgamated with DFO and to their credit their PTSD team was really on the ball, in fact we had to tell them we didn't really need them to show up everytime we picked up a body in the Fraser river. We also had a peer support team at the Hovercraft base and 2 of our people were sent back east during the Swissair recovery to help the divers there cope.

My office is getting bumped to our programs branch which is more touchy feely, in fact when one of them saw me in an argument in a meeting with a crusty old co-worker from the Prairies they sent someone by to make sure my "feelings had not been hurt" I just had to laugh.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Rider Pride said:
Your statement about people being released from the military due to a diagnosis of PTSD because the Canadian Forces was "to lazy to deal with [PTSD] properly" requires substantiation.

Your rant does not negate the initial point: there are civilians who have never served in the military who suffer from PTSD. They all struggle to find help because the resources are just not there.

Sorry, you don't get off that easily by trying to deflect from your own opinion. Once more you don't see the forest for the trees. It wasn't a rant. Just a simple observation about another one of your blanket statements on PTSD.

To wit, people should not complain.

I'm also amazed at how every discussion about PTSD you enter, your able to make judgment calls about people's mental capacities and problems without ever coming in contact with them or knowing who they are.

However, just keep throwing your expertise around. You obviously have some superior skill the most psych practitioners don't.

Too bad you can't bottle it.

:salute:

 

Jarnhamar

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Goose15 said:
Okay that is fair enough and reasonable comparison that I will agree is justified.

Again a justified comparison. Unfortunately the latter is certainly true as well. Luckily, my family members are more aware of the reality but I have had to try and debunk those theories among others.

I appreciate the reply. I was simply interested in your more detailed thoughts.

If you have some patience you can search this forum and find examples of applicants who appear to be joining the CF with the expectation that they will develop PTSD.
 
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