QC Jail dimisses Guard-in-training for wearing a Hijab

[niner domestic]

A women's detention centre has had to let one of their new guards in training go for nonconformist to the Centre's safety rules.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070314/national/hijab_prison

Having worked in a number of Penitentiaries during my days at law school in the Corrections Program, I am completely on side with the dismissal.  I wasn't a guard, but I did have urine thrown at me by an inmate as I walked down the range, had a female client choke hold me in the interview room because she wasn't getting her appeal, had a male inmate grab my hair and planted my face on the interview desk, again because their appeal was denied.  Now I was these inmate's student lawyer and it got rough, and I certainly can't imagine how much more damage to me person would have occurred had I been wearing articles of clothing that gave them even more purchase to grab, hold and choke or how much rougher it can get if one were a guard and really considered by the inmates to be an enemy. 

I'm tempted to suggest that they have the woman, sign off on a waiver releasing then from liability and have her attend a range party, when the home brew is ready and everyone is boxed.  We'll see how long her hijab lasts and how tight the knot will be on her neck.  Good God, is this person an idiot?


   

 

[GUNS]

I am in no way against immigration, our country is made up of immigrants.

I am tired of the "politically correct" crowd telling Canadians that our patriotism is offending others.

We have our own culture,society,lifestyle and language( which happens to be French and English, only)

Canadian soldiers fought and died for such freedom.

The freedon to say Merry Christmas and not Season's Greeting's

The freedom to put up a Christmas tree in public places.

The freedom to practice our Christian beliefs

If God offends certain peoples, learn to live with it. God is part of our country.

How much more have Canadian's got to give up of their identity.

My Grandfather fought in WW I

My Father fought in WW II

For what?

Immigrants, not Canadian's must adapt

 

[imjustsomeguy]

GUNS,

Amen to that. Well put.

 

[Bobby Rico]

Testify, GUNS.

As a fifth generation Canadian (six generation North American) I take somewhat personal exception when people in this country tell me that I must now adapt to the changing culture in the country my ancestors helped put on the fucking map.  We built the country the way we wanted it, so when people start saying 'You must accept this, and you must accept that' in light of the fact that this or that might be sacrificing both national identity as well as our own personal customs just so this guy from this other country can feel more 'at home'.  Well what the fuck is this?  It's like asking me to rearrange my entire house just for guests.  No.  People adapt to my way of living when the come to my house, that's the way it is, and not just for me, but for every damn person on this planet.  So why are we expected to do it as a country?  Makes no damn sense, and we're the only country that does it.

Anyway, sorry, rant over.  I am by no means anti-immigration.  I mean, let them come, but don't expect me to bend over backwards to make sure these people aren't 'offended' by customs that have been held by my family since the time before I was born.  It ain't happening.

 

[sigpig]

The freedom to practice our Christian beliefs

If God offends certain peoples, learn to live with it. God is part of our country.

Don't get carried away with the religious stuff there guns, not all native born Canadians are religious let alone christian, and we certainly don't have to "learn to live with it".

On the other hand, I love christmas trees and happily greet people with a hearty Merry Christmas 

 

[Donut]

Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion, your right to swing your fists ends at my nose.

On the topic at hand,  I'm glad to see the union isn't defending her on this.  In fact, it sounds like they raised the alarm over it, as it is rightly a workplace hazard.

 

[Gramps]

The freedom to practice our Christian beliefs

If God offends certain peoples, learn to live with it. God is part of our country.

Those are your Christian beliefs not everyone's and certainly not mine. There is no state religion here and that is one of the many many wonderful things about this country.

 

[Strike]

Right guys, time for me to be the devil's advocate again.

First, the article is about wearing a hidjab.  Nowhere does the person force her beliefs on anyone else.  She just wants the right o wear this article as a prison guard. (9D, glad to see the whole immigrant and religion argument didn't come in to play with your response.  I was initially a little miffed by her firing but can now understand the reasoning behind it.)

GUNS, the PC crowd you are talking about are generally NOT the immigrants, but those touchy feely types who want to make everyone happy all the time.

As for our culture and language, given that the majority of growth in Canada right now is from immigration, you might want to rethink that.

I have heard speach after speach of immigrants FOR having a Christmas tree, keeping the Christ in Christmas, etc.

The topic is wether or not someone should be able to wear a head scarf as a prison guard, not if she should be given the time to pray 5 times a day.  It may be a religious item, but we shouldn't have to bring beliefs into a discussion about common sense, since the two barely ever mix well. ;D

 

[Shamrock]

A women's detention centre has had to let one of their new guards in training go for nonconformist to the Centre's safety rules.

Far be it from me to return this thread to the subject at hand, we can go back to bashing godless (or inappropriately godded) immigrants later.

Are there any instances of hijab-wearing guards elsewhere?  Have those instances proven hijabs to be that detrimental to job performance or this instead an extreme reaction to nonconformity?  Hair, as you mentioned, gives purchase; shouldn't that required to be removed, too?  I'm not familiar with hijab, but would it not be possible to fabricate one of easily torn materials?

Personally, I agree with the sentiment that if it's of detriment, then either it goes or she signs a waiver indicating she's aware of and accepts the risks associated with her style of dress (and ensure she's properly made aware of the risks so she can't challenge it in court).  

 

[Remius]

Good point.  anyone know what the hair policy is for female prison guards?  seems that long hair whether tied or not could be as problematic as Hijab.

 

[Strike]

This is such a hot topic right now, especially with the recent hubbub about the young girl playing soccer.

I am not familiar with how one is worn, but if the ends are tucked into a shirt and worn tightly enough to reduce the ability for someone to grab it, it seems feasible that it should be of no more danger than someone who has long hair.  Even worn in a bun it's easy to grab.

 

[goingback]

I think the whole soccer thing was stupid, But I do feel that the prison was right. Defiantly not a place to wear something that restricts vision( I understand some can affect peripheral vi sion) in anyway or gives a inmate something else to grab on to. I also think that if you want to Work for a place that has a uniform ( military, Police, corrections, etc) that you should not be asking for exceptions to the uniform.

 

[Sassy]

Corrections Canada has a uniform, if she wasn't prepared to wear the "Proper" equipment that's her problem not the systems. A Hijab is part of a "Custom" and "tradition" but it is not mandatory for Islamic followers to wear a head scarf or hijab. While earning my degree in Criminology I visited many prisons, it is hard enough for a female to fit in but wearing something on one's head could make you a target and this item can also be used as a weapon (rip it off and strangle someone with it) against her or other inmates.  It's a safety issue, not a religious one. This nonsense has gone on long enough, if the system has to change to accomadate "A small minority" than it's not the system that's broken but society for pandering to the wishes of a "FEW" screamers and moaners.  Stuff PCness, and pandering and appeasement.  

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This is such a hot topic right now, especially with the recent hubbub about the young girl playing soccer.

I am not familiar with how one is worn, but if the ends are tucked into a shirt and worn tightly enough to reduce the ability for someone to grab it, it seems feasible that it should be of no more danger than someone who has long hair.  Even worn in a bun it's easy to grab.

It's a hell of a lot easier to strangle someone with a scarf than it is their own hair. It's not just a matter of grabbing, but it can also be effective in killing someone. ie: the wearer. In a system where the range gets locked down because a chicken bone (could be sharpened) is found, you don't give them anymore tools than you can.

 

[GUNS]

I am not dumping on immigrants because they are immigrants, far from it.

My rant is about people coming to Canada for a better lifestyle and once they are here its," you do as I do" attitude.

Its about turbans as a RCMP headdress.

Its about children allowed to bring ceremonial swords to school but Canadians are in trouble for carring a pocket knife.

Its about fathers not allowed to attend prenatal classes with their wives/partner because there are women there from another country.

Its about forcing schools of learning to set up space for certain groups to practice their religious beliefs but Christ is not allowed in the classroom.

As I mentioned, its not the immigrants, its having to bend over backwards to please them.

My Oncologist is from India, the Dr. who looked after my chemo. and radiation is from Iran and the Dr.'s who looked after me during hospital stays were from Pakistan so I owe my present existence to immigrants.

All I am saying is, welcome to Canada now become a good CANADIAN.

 

[MediTech]

Those are your Christian beliefs not everyone's and certainly not mine. There is no state religion here and that is one of the many many wonderful things about this country.

Au contraire, the Canadian Constitution states "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law".

That's God with a capital G.  Not some Allah or Yahweh or some god with ten arms but the Christian God.

 

[aesop081]

We've been down this road alot before.........any chance we can get back on track

The track being Hijab and working in a prison....

army.ca staff

 

[MediTech]

I think if it's a health hazard you should be dismissed.  I wouldn't allowed to be in the military if I decided I wanted to wear something like fluorescent clothing out in the field.

 

[niner domestic]

These are the hair regs for CSC, now as far as the regs for the provincial bucket, I have not got those handy.  

Hair and Facial Hair
50. Hairstyle is a matter of personal choice. However, hair must be clean, neatly styled and well groomed. Hair ribbons, barrettes and other means of keeping hair in place must be discreet, must complement the uniform, and must not pose any health or security risk.

For religious apparel:

Dress Requirements Based on Religious Affiliation
CSC will comply with all direction provided by the Human Rights Commission and relevant accepted practices with the confines of the safety and security requirements.
54. Members of the Sikh religion may wear:
a. a turban, provided its colour complements the uniform and the turban conceals the hair and is neat; and
b. a small, non-metallic replica of a khirpan (not more than 8.75 cm in length), which is the symbolic Sikh sword, worn under the uniform.

From: http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/plcy/doc/351-1gl_e.pdf

Now, as far as this person and the young soccer player is concerned.  I noticed in all the pictures of the soccer player that her hijab was not one specially designed for sports.  Those tend to be sleeker and more fitted to the head and are held together with velcro fasteners. Which look like this:  http://www.thehijabshop.com/capsters/index.php

Even though they are tighter fitted against the head and would render as much purchase in being grabbed as hair, the issue I have with the safety is that they cup the throat and chin.  A yank from the back and a twist and it's now a choke hold.  

I am absolutely positive that in the soccer player's case, the above type of hijabs would not have caused a concerned.  The ones with pins, caps, fasteners and tied under the chin would have, just as working with the criminal element will be an issue with the same kind.  

And let's for a moment look at not just the choking issue, but also the vision hampering but simply pulling a hijab over the wearer's eyes.  They would never see the shank coming.  

But my big beef with this, is the recklessness of attempting to push this agenda forward when the lives of other guards would also be put at risk.  For those who have ever been on a range that is trying to get locked down, no one can afford to give the inmate population the upper hand.  

Please don't begin on the Charter, otherwise I'll be forced to do my "This is the Charter" lecture I give my students and I will be giving a quiz afterwards.

 

[Kat Stevens]

About the girl playing soccer with her headgear on.  FIFA rules call for removal of all jewelry, head dress, and loose clothing for player safety.  FIFA has existed since 1930, and includes Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, and Budhist football nations in its membership.  In all that time, the first time the rule is ever questioned is by an 11 year old  girl in Canada?  Says more about us than it does FIFA, I think.