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  • Thread starter Thread starter GForce
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GForce

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I‘ve noticed a lot of people talking about budget cuts and I suppose there right.. but the Canadian Forces are fairly small and we‘re one of the highest military spenders in the world (somewhere in the 9-14 range it seems to change every so often). I was just wondering what you guys think of that do we have the money, is our government lying or steaing? or are we just miss using our $$$$$$
 
our government just doesn‘t like spending...or giving the people who choose to defend this wonderful country the supplies they need to do the job properly
 
I wouldn‘t say we are one of the "highest" military spenders of the world - we aren‘t even near the top 10. Also, having a reasonable budget doesn‘t mean the government put it in the right places where it‘s needed.
 
We have the second lowest military expenditure per capita in NATO, only Iceland spends less, and that‘s because they don‘t have a real military, just a strong police force and coast guard.
 
Gforce - Much has been said on this. Look up other threads. Bottom line. We need leadership. All else is useless without the will to lead.

Name one. Someone name a person in position of authority right now who isn‘t a lacky or a mediocre person. Someone who doesn‘t care about patronage and cronieism. Someone who isn‘t self-serving?

Our system has been corrupted for so long, it requires a complete re-thinking as to what exactly we want for the future.

Change will come, but it won‘t happen until the system fails.

....
 
To paraphrase an American LT in Vietnam, we‘re gonna have to destroy the village in order to be able to save the village.
 
Sorry enzo im new on this board was just asking :p "I wouldn‘t say we are one of the "highest" military spenders of the world - we aren‘t even near the top 10. Also, having a reasonable budget doesn‘t mean the government put it in the right places where it‘s needed." Est 2003 we‘re about 12-14th thats pretty close to Top 10 providing theres alot of countries out there
 
Canada is the sixth largest military spender in NATO that‘s good enough for me
 
Can you provide a link to your figures G? I wouldn‘t mind taking a look.
 
Canada is the sixth largest military spender in NATO
Maybe if we factor in the six figure annual performance bonuses handed out to NDHQ bureacrats and yes men. :D
 
http://www.cbc.ca/insite/COMMENTARY/2002/9/16.html
http://www.peacewire.org/campaigns/articles/militarism/Talking_Points.html
http://www.peace.ca/marikaarticle2002.htm
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2002-12-05/news_story2.php
 
So, I dunno if that proves much to you guys but where the (****) is our money going :?!?!
 
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2067rank.html

From the CIA I "assume" their information is accurate. But then, if they knew so much we wouldn‘t have had them bomb us. :D
 
G - I perused your sources, I noticed that they all stem from the Polaris Institute and Steven Staples in particular. From that, I‘d have to agree with some of the findings presented there. The numbers provided by Ruthless support the expenditures that Canada maintains each year. The tone however is very much a pacifist one. I don‘t have a problem with that. But it has to be considered.

It seems that there are two overall aspects which are crutial and have to be addressed:

1. What is our purpose? What exactly is going to be the focus of the CF over the next 20 years? We need a direction and it has to be in accordance with the wishes of the Canadian population and the place that Canada chooses to partake in this world. One can‘t have it all. There is a cost to everything. How much cost is the public prepared to accept in terms of that participation.

2. Leadership. At all levels. Accountability and honour. It would be nice to see a resurgence of both. Without this, then the gross examples of patronage and waste that have permeated the CF will continue. Increased funding will bring some favourable changes, but mismanagement will continue to waste large sums.

As for the US, they have a budget that is incredible. We can work with them, but increasing our budget to the levels suggested isn‘t going to happen. It‘s a wish list. 6% of our GDP won‘t happen. As much as I welcome more cash, I‘d also like to see the entire CF shaken up. Everything from Recruiting to Upper Command. The mismanagement and waste is something that can be fixed. The will to fix this has to come from within.

It isn‘t such a matter of lying and stealing, as it is apathy.
 
Leadership is paramount. I read somewhere that one of the American SecDefs (can‘t remember which, maybe Powell circa DS era) had the idea that he wanted to walk through the Pentagon and ask every single person employed there to answer two questions: Who do you work for, and what is your job/responsibilty/function? Anyone who couldn‘t answer those questions in less than two sentences, without breaking out the flowcharts, graphs, and PowerPoint mission statements, got the pinkslip. It never happened, but d@mn, what a brilliant and audacious strategy. I think if the MND and CLS really wanted to cut the waste, they would take that strategy and apply it to NDHQ, Area HQs, and brigade HQs. It will never happen, but I can dream.
Mind you, I firmly believe merging the miltary and civilian sides of the defence equation with NDHQ‘s formation was what really lead to the breeding of the beauracratic monster child that keeps us twisted in useless knots. Cival servant mentality and perks dangled too close to senior officers was a bad idea then, and still is now. The Echelons Above God now look far more late Roman than they do Spartan. Looking after the troops and taking a stand on the disarmament and betrayal of Canada‘s military became a distant second to staying close to NDHQ and playing with the influential and being an "important person". Much like the Romans found the hard way, trading discipline for decadence and turning proud service for citizens into paid work for mercenaries (the rest of the Anglo Alliance) is the surest road to being replaced by the next new thing.
 
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