Radar

[Kirkhill]

Another area without a thread of its own, and yet it is critical.

Area 22 is our responsibility (22 Wing out of Nort Bay monitoring the North Warning Sites)





The US has maintained Over-The-Horizon-Backscatter sites since at least the 1980s



Our current purchase of the Australian JORN is us playing catch-up.

Canada Looks To Close Critical Arctic Radar Gaps With Australia's Help

A new long-range over-the-horizon radar would help Canada and the United States keep watch over the highly strategic High North.

www.twz.com

I understand that we will actually need three arrays. The first one in the Borden area is focused towards Greenland and effectively overlapping with Maine's sector 1 and effectively covers the Halifax SRR. There will be another covering off the Victoria SRR direction over the pacific and a third will be required for the Trenton SRR geography over the Arctic. That sounds as if the Arctic one will be built in the Alert - Eureka area. I presume that the western one, like the eastern one, will be built inland.

 

[Kirkhill]

And, of course, there are our space based efforts with the Radarsat constellation.

RADARSAT Constellation Mission (RCM) - eoPortal

<p>The RADARSAT Constellation Mission (RCM) is operated by CSA (Canadian Space Agency) with private sector support, from MDA (MacDonald Dettwiler Associates Ltd.). Launched in June 2019, RCM provides C-Band data continuity for existing RADARSAT-1 & -2 users, and daily coverage of Canadian waters...

www.eoportal.org

Just as a side note, this public private patrnership is probably similar in concepi to the proposed UxV sensor network being proposed by the RN for their Atlantic Bastion and I am guessing that that is where the civil-military-paramilitary Coast Guard fits into the picture on our side of the Atlantic.

 

[ytz]

1) R2 and RCM will be replaced for the CAF by DESSP. Both currently have SOCDs raised against them. We need our own.

2) North Warning System is being replaced by Crossbow.

 

[Kirkhill]

R2= Radarsat 2
RCM=Radarsat Constellation Mission
DESSP=Defence Enhanced Surveillance from Space Project
SOCD=Statement Of Capability Deficiency

 

[Seyek]

1) R2 and RCM will be replaced for the CAF by DESSP. Both currently have SOCDs raised against them. We need our own.

2) North Warning System is being replaced by Crossbow.

Are there any resources (either DWAN or publicly available) to read up on our space based capabilities and future plans? I'm interested in knowing more about the subject but don't really know where to start learning about it.

 

[ytz]

Are there any resources (either DWAN or publicly available) to read up on our space based capabilities and future plans? I'm interested in knowing more about the subject but don't really know where to start learning about it.

You can do a Sharepoint search to learn more. Crossbow is highly classified. So not much will be found. But you can read between the lines here:

In close coordination with the United States, we will establish the backbone of a brand-new, Northern Approaches Surveillance system to enhance surveillance and early warning of threats to our continent. Most notably, this will include three initiatives:

• An Arctic Over-the-Horizon Radar system to provide early warning radar coverage and threat tracking from the Canada-U.S. border to the Arctic Circle.
• A Polar Over-the-Horizon Radar system to provide early warning radar coverage over and beyond the northernmost approaches to North America, including the Canadian Arctic archipelago, and
• A new system called Crossbow — a network of sensors with classified capabilities, distributed across northern Canada, as another layer of detection.

Minister of National Defence Announces Canada’s NORAD Modernization Plan - Canada.ca

I acknowledge that we are gathering on the traditional territory of the Anishinaabeg, Haudenosaunee and Huron-Wendat peoples. Today, we reaffirm our commitment to meaningful reconciliation and respectful partnership with Indigenous Peoples.

www.canada.ca

DESSP is in the DCB. So you can get the quick overview here:

Defence Enhanced Surveillance from Space - Project (DESSP) (NORAD modernization) - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Defence Enhanced Surveillance from Space - Project (DESSP) (NORAD modernization) - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

apps.forces.gc.ca

 

[lenaitch]

Another area without a thread of its own, and yet it is critical.

Area 22 is our responsibility (22 Wing out of Nort Bay monitoring the North Warning Sites)

View attachment 97817

View attachment 97818

The US has maintained Over-The-Horizon-Backscatter sites since at least the 1980s

View attachment 97819

Our current purchase of the Australian JORN is us playing catch-up.

Canada Looks To Close Critical Arctic Radar Gaps With Australia's Help

A new long-range over-the-horizon radar would help Canada and the United States keep watch over the highly strategic High North.

www.twz.com

I understand that we will actually need three arrays. The first one in the Borden area is focused towards Greenland and effectively overlapping with Maine's sector 1 and effectively covers the Halifax SRR. There will be another covering off the Victoria SRR direction over the pacific and a third will be required for the Trenton SRR geography over the Arctic. That sounds as if the Arctic one will be built in the Alert - Eureka area. I presume that the western one, like the eastern one, will be built inland.

Not to take away from your argument but your first map is dacades out of date.

 

[ytz]

Not to take away from your argument but your first map is dacades out of date.

View attachment 97821

Correct. This is functionally how NORAD operates today.

 

[OldSolduer]

I thought we were talking about O’Reilly…

 

[Kirkhill]

Not to take away from your argument but your first map is dacades out of date.

View attachment 97821

Seen. Thanks.

Do you have a map showing the airspace limits over water?

 

[Kirkhill]

While we are on the subject of maps

The battlefield



Sea transit routes



Air transit



Territorial claims

 

[lenaitch]

Do you have a map showing the airspace limits over water?

Sorry. can't compete - won't even try.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sorry. can't compete - won't even try.

Not a competition, a legitimate question. Asking out of curiosity because that is the map that I was originally looking for.

Cheers.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think this the map I was looking for.

 

[Kirkhill]

Some UK developments in radar

Britain moves closer to buying Australian radar

Britain has signed a statement of intent covering the potential adoption of Australian CEA radar tech for its forces, with QinetiQ handling integration, testing and assurance of the capability across the UK defence enterprise.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

UK awards Saab major Giraffe radar support deal

Defence Equipment and Support has awarded Saab UK a contract valued at £1.6 billion to provide logistics support, supply, training and spares for the Giraffe 1X radar system.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

60 Systems in 60 Days: Saab's Remarkable Giraffe 1X Radar Delivery

The Giraffe 1X is a software-upgradable, compact multi-mission 3D radar designed to thrive in harsh conditions and operate from any platform. Despite its advanced capabilities, Saab successfully delivered 60 of these systems in just 60 days. But how is such a feat possible?

www.saab.com

UK MoD orders Giraffe 1X radars

The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has ordered an undisclosed number of Giraffe 1X radar systems from Saab UK valued at nearly GBP24 million (USD31.84 million), according...

www.janes.com

Royal Navy seeks rapidly deployable drone picket ships

Project HORUS seeks rapidly deployable uncrewed sensors to detect drones, missiles and aircraft at sea.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

QinetiQ integrates radar for Type 31 frigate at Portsdown Technology Park

QinetiQ has integrated the radar for the UK Royal Navy's (RN's) future Inspiration (Type 31)-class frigates at the Portsdown Technology Park (PTP) site in Portsmouth.

www.janes.com

US ally tests quantum clock for radar network synchronization

The Royal Navy completed its first-ever demonstration of a distributed military radar network without any GNSS assistance using an atomic clock.

interestingengineering.com

Radar network kept working after GPS timing was cut

Saab UK, Aquark Technologies and the Royal Navy have run a trial in which a network of military radars continued to produce a single air picture without relying on GPS for timing, using quantum clocks instead.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Kirkhill]

On quantum clocks

Quantum and optical atomic clocks are the most precise instruments ever made by humans, achieving fractional systematic uncertainties and inconsistencies below the 10⁻¹⁸ level, meaning they would drift by less than one second over billions of years.

Accuracy (Systematic Uncertainty)

Defined by how closely a clock's ticked frequency matches the true, unperturbed natural quantum transition of an atom.

Top-tier optical lattice clocks reach uncertainties below 1.4 × 10⁻¹⁸ (losing or gaining roughly one second in 30 billion years).

Main limitations come from tiny external shifts like blackbody radiation from the environment, magnetic fields, and gravity (gravitational redshift).


Reproducibility

Defined by how identically two independently built clocks of the same design tick relative to each other.

Advanced strontium and ytterbium setups show independent systems agreeing on their ticking frequencies below the 10⁻¹⁸ threshold.

Proves that the underlying quantum mechanical transitions are universal constants unaffected by manufacturing variations.


Consistency (Stability)

Defined by how little the tick rate fluctuates over a specific measurement duration (Allan deviation).

State-of-the-art quantum systems achieve stabilities past 3.2 × 10⁻¹⁹ over a single day of averaging.

Quantum entanglement techniques (like spin squeezing) are increasingly used to suppress fundamental quantum projection noise and push consistency even higher.

 

[Kirkhill]

True commercial hardware atomic clocks are about the size of a matchbook and cost roughly $1,500 to $4,500 USD.

However, the size and price vary drastically depending on whether you are looking for a standard consumer wall clock or a high-precision scientific instrument.

1. Consumer "Atomic" Clocks (Radio-Controlled)

Consumer clocks sold as "atomic clocks" do not actually contain internal atomic hardware. Instead, they feature a built-in radio receiver that automatically syncs with national atomic clock broadcast signals (like WWVB in Colorado).

Size: Typical wall clock or desk alarm clock sizes (ranging from 2.5 to 14 inches).

Cost: $20 to $100 USD.

You can easily browse these options via online retailers like Amazon or eBay.


2. Chip-Scale Atomic Clocks (CSAC)

These are the smallest real atomic clocks in existence, designed for aerospace, military, and deep-sea exploration where GPS signals cannot reach.

They use microelectromechanical systems (MEMS) to bounce a laser through a tiny chamber of cesium atoms.

Size: Roughly 1.5 x 1.4 x 0.4 inches (4 x 3.5 x 1 cm) and weighing just 35 grams.

Cost:

Base models usually start around $1,500 USD.
Specialized variants, such as radiation-tolerant space-grade chips, can range from $2,700 to over $7,400 USD depending on order volume.

Leading manufacturers like Microchip Technology supply these units.

3. Benchtop & Primary Frequency Standards

These are the ultra-precise, heavy-duty atomic clocks used by telecommunication networks, data centers, and scientific laboratories.

Size: Ranging from a large toaster to a 19-inch rack-mounted server chassis.

Cost: $3,000 to $50,000+ USD.

The absolute pinnacle of precision technology—commercial optical lattice clocks—can sell for up to $3.4 million USD.

.....

The key to modern navigation was Harrison's clock.

John Harrison's marine timekeepers

Revolutionary timepieces that allowed ships to determine their longitude at sea

www.rmg.co.uk

Now that capability is available on a chip for a couple of thousand dollars. Cheap enough to blow it up.