Rations, Meal Halls ect... Merged

[X-mo-1979]

Quick question reference meal claims.

Been working 7h00-17h30 for the past week through the weekend and onward for the next little while.
Now the problem lies we have stayed till 19h00 without supper on one occasion and it is also a 30-40 minute bus drive back to base.

The night we stayed till 19h00 meal claims were made out for only living in personnel.Shouldn't everyone get the claim?

As well WHEN does the meal claim kick into action.Pretty well every night we get back on base around 18H15 or so.

Just wondering if someone can give me a strait answer on it/where to find the reference..Just trying to make sure my troops are not getting scammed out of money,and I have zip for time to look into it between working like a dog and trying to spend a hour with my family before I deploy.

Also when does the "clock" stop?At the work place a half hr bus ride away?Or when the bus gets us back to base?

Thank you very much,
Ill check back later

 

[George Wallace]

I think that what you are seeing is a "reimbursement of funds" for the Living-in pers.  What you 'Living out' guys have to do is submit an M Tech (Meal Claim) through the OR for your meals.  I think it is based on the TD rates for meals, but am not sure.  It is a petty cash account that the OR administers for such incidentals that happen.  You will, of course, have to have receipts in some cases.  You also sign an acquitance roll when you are paid. 

 

[Roy Harding]

I take it that you weren't fed - a box lunch or whatever.

An MTEC claim (Minor Travel Expense Claim) is meant to reimburse you for funds ACTUALLY spent due to the exigencies of the service.

If you had to work until 1800, then went home and had a late supper - you didn't expend funds beyond what you normally would.  On the OTHER hand, if you ordered pizza or chinese or whatever whilst on duty, you could be reimbursed (granting that a meal - box lunch, mess chit, whatever, wasn't made available to you). 

But in MY world - you'd need a receipt.  MTEC isn't a compensation fund for inconvenience - it's a compensation fund for money actually spent due to the exigencies of the service.

Edit - typo

 

[X-mo-1979]

Ok guys thanks for the response.

For some reason I thought that after 18h00 who ever was in charge had to summit a meal claim for the group.

No box lunches,haybox,meal chit's,dirty rocks to lick for nutrients were provided.

Every night I came home and ate supper.Most times by the time I got it ready 20h00.

Was there a time during the day when the MTEC come into effect?

Not a fun task by any means.I'm slightly bitter and twisted,however someones gotta do it.

Just looking to put cash in the boys pockets if they were entilted.

Do you guys happen to know where this stuff is written?Provide a link?

cheers.

 

[George Wallace]

In CFAO 36-21  ACCOUNTING FOR RATION ENTITLEMENT


ANNEX G -- CASUAL MEALS AND REPAYMENT MEALSSECTION 1 -- CASUAL MEALS
1.    For the purposes of Section 1 of this annex, "casual meal" means:
    a.  a meal provided to a living-out member from public rations under
          paragraph 4y of 36-14.

    b.  a meal provided to a living-out member from public rations under
          paragraph 4w of 36-14; or

    c.  a meal provided from public rations to a living-in member as a
          result of ship/shore duty as prescribed in paragraph 4 below.

2.    Except as indicated in paragraph 3 below, a Casual Meal Authorization
form (Appendix 1) shall be prepared to document and approve the entitlement
to a casual meal.  The form shall be prepared in single copy and, after use
by the individual, shall be forwarded daily by the DND food services
facility to the base or unit orderly room for incorporation in the ration
entitlement.

3.    Where a casual meal is provided in respect of a military duty that is
published in Routine Orders (eg, orderly officer), a Casual Meal
Authorization form is not required.

4.    When a person on ration strength proceeds on duty from a ship to a
shore establishment, or to another ship, over a meal period, the executive
officer may approve a casual meal authorization for the meal or meals
taken. Similarly, a living-in person of a shore establishment may be
authorized a casual meal or meals when on duty in a ship over a meal
period.  The ration entitlement of the parent ship or establishment shall
not be adjusted for such casual meals when the period of duty is for 24
hours or less.

=======================================================

ANNEX G, APPENDIX 1 -- CANADIAN FORCES CASUAL MEAL AUTHORIZATION
This image is in the process of being rescannedClick Image To Get Expanded View

INSTRUCTIONS (numbers correspond to circled numbers above)

1.    Insert SN, rank and name of person.  If a group is authorized meals,
insert "as per attached list".

2.    Insert date on which meal(s) is/are to be taken.

3.    Explain briefly the reason for the free casual meal(s).

4.    Insert person's base, unit, section, company, branch, etc.

5.    Signature and rank of authorizing officer.

===================================================

 

[Roy Harding]

Ok guys thanks for the response.

For some reason I thought that after 18h00 who ever was in charge had to summit a meal claim for the group.

No box lunches,haybox,meal chit's,dirty rocks to lick for nutrients were provided.

Every night I came home and ate supper.Most times by the time I got it ready 20h00.

Was there a time during the day when the MTEC come into effect?

Not a fun task by any means.I'm slightly bitter and twisted,however someones gotta do it.

Just looking to put cash in the boys pockets if they were entilted.

Do you guys happen to know where this stuff is written?Provide a link?

cheers.

Keep in mind that I'm a few years out of date - you'd be better off to speak to your Chief Clerk on this.

From my (outdated) point of view, however - meal reimbursement is exactly that - a reimbursement for funds spent - NOT a payment in lieu, nor a compensation for having missed a meal.  This caused MUCH friction between aircrew and myself when I was CC of an operational (SAR) squadron - and was never settled to my satisfaction.

Talk to your Chief Clerk - find out what the local rules are (in my experience they could vary from place to place, from CO to CO, and from CC to CC).

 

[harry8422]

hey , X-mo-1979 

I am on the same tasking as yourself and was just about to research the same subject but you beat me to it.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Thanks George thats what I was lookin for.

Yeah roy it's a tasking outside my chain.And working from 5h30 till dark don't leave much time for me to swing into work to see the clerk.

thanks again.

Harry8422,I'll try and look after ya. ;D

 

[armyvern]

At my last Unit, here's how it went (we often worked weekends etc, expectedly & unexpectedly).

When we needed to work nights expectedly ... I had the Supply guys arrange for food delivery for the supper meal period as that was over & above the "normal" work day. Pers (living out ... are expected to provide their own lunch if not travelling). We bore the costs of providing that meal for the pers working over the CF "supper" hour.

For "unexpected" work over the supper hour, when Sup was not able to arrange for "take out" for everyone, pers who worked were authorized a general allowance claim by me if they were not dismissed from the workplace prior to 1830 hours (which is the "end" of the supper hour) and thus could not eat their supper meal during the CFs official "timings" for it.

MTEC was not applicable as members did not have receipts nor were they travelling, but entitlement was deemed to have existed as work requirements prevented them from obtaining or eating their meal during the CFs recognized timing for that meal, and that their performance of duty to the CF caused that missed timing.

 

[beach_bum]

Keep in mind that I'm a few years out of date - you'd be better off to speak to your Chief Clerk on this.

From my (outdated) point of view, however - meal reimbursement is exactly that - a reimbursement for funds spent - NOT a payment in lieu, nor a compensation for having missed a meal.  This caused MUCH friction between aircrew and myself when I was CC of an operational (SAR) squadron - and was never settled to my satisfaction.

Talk to your Chief Clerk - find out what the local rules are (in my experience they could vary from place to place, from CO to CO, and from CC to CC).

These are the rules we have.  Pers are only reimbursed money spent out of their own pocket.  If they didn't spend anything (if in the local geographical region a receipt must be provided) they don't get reimbursed.

 

[Roy Harding]

Thanks George thats what I was lookin for.

Yeah roy it's a tasking outside my chain.And working from 5h30 till dark don't leave much time for me to swing into work to see the clerk.

thanks again.

Harry8422,I'll try and look after ya. ;D

Send an email to him/her (your CC).  That works too.

 

[Franko]

Been working 7h00-17h30 for the past week through the weekend and onward for the next little while.
Now the problem lies we have stayed till 19h00 without supper on one occasion and it is also a 30-40 minute bus drive back to base.

If you are working over the supper hour well past the 1800 cut off time the organization that is in charge of you should be feeding you and your troops, be it box lunches or haybox meals.

If they aren't, lodge a complaint through the CoC, the work party and at your unit who tasked you, pronto.

It would seem that this is a short sight on their part and is inexcusable IMHO.

My 0.02 Duram worth.

Regards

 

[armyvern]

If you are working over the supper hour well past the 1800 cut off time the organization that is in charge of you should be feeding you and your troops, be it box lunches or haybox meals.

If they aren't, lodge a complaint through the CoC, the work party and at your unit who tasked you, pronto.

It would seem that this is a short sight on their part and is inexcusable IMHO.

My 0.02 Duram worth.

Regards

I agree.

They either feed them via alternate means (box lunch etc), or the member is entitled to claim them.

Being allowed your meals is an entitlement, and when you can not have them within a reasonable time period (as set out for the CF official meal timings) due to performance of military duties -- they are compensatable (and that's exactly why the living-in guys got reimbursed -- because they had missed the meal hour at the Mess).

 

[Zoomie]

This caused MUCH friction between aircrew and myself when I was CC of an operational (SAR) squadron - and was never settled to my satisfaction.

No more friction here Roy

MTECs without receipt are required for operational crew members when they eat away from the Wing (i.e. Chilliwack for lunch).

When operational crews stay on the Wing over lunch - they all go over together to the Mess Hall and eat to their heart's (and waistlines) content.

If our day shift goes late and we land past 1830hrs - we fill out an MTEC again, but this time we require a receipt and only get reimbursed for the funds expended.  We had a CC a couple of years ago who would vet each itemized receipt and question the member about whether he really ate all the food.  "Did you really eat a whole bucket of chicken?"
Our current SOR staff are more big picture and reimburse up to the maximum allowable (TD lrate).

 

[PO2FinClk]

MTEC was not applicable as members did not have receipts nor were they travelling, but entitlement was deemed to have existed as work requirements prevented them from obtaining or eating their meal during the CFs recognized timing for that meal, and that their performance of duty to the CF caused that missed timing.

MTEC is but the claim form used and not the direction or policy authorizing any reimbursement. Rather the TB Travel Directive of which DND/CF have enhanced through CBI's, CFAO's and more to the point the CFTDTI's are the authorities to effect any reimbursement of the sort. The 2 quotes above can apply to pers within this topic as I do not know if they were working outside the HQ Area or not.

As a rule of thumb, anything within the local area (HQ Area) requires receipts and would suspect that Roy can back me up on that. You have been reimbursed, however do not be surprised if it gets picked up during an audit and have to repay the funds (if not recovered from your pay). I have seen this happen time and time again. Regardless of the perceived “entitlement”, without receipts it did not exist as only actual and reasonable expenses incurred can be reimbursed through the use receipts to no greater amount then provided by the Treasury Board.

Not trying to start a debate, nor will I participate in, of what it should or should not be but am rather only advising you of the regulations to this effect.

 

[armyvern]

Edited: PM in.

 

[Bintheredunthat]

Not wanting to start a new thread as this may be somewhat related.

I always thought that for TD - breakfast if provided (at a hotel) was not to be claimed only if it was a full or hot breakfast.  It goes back to one of those things as having always done it this way.  What I'm trying to understand is why, when I'm given a coffee and a muffin at a hotel, would this meal be considered anything even close to the equivalent to a normal sized meal.

I've taken a look through the CFTDIs but couldn't read much of it for this particular situation.  I've spoken to different members of the Clerk staff and the idea seems to be split as to what is correct.

Can anyone provide opinion as to which it should be?

Bin

 

[aesop081]

What I'm trying to understand is why, when I'm given a coffee and a muffin at a hotel, would this meal be considered anything even close to the equivalent to a normal sized meal.

Its not. I do this alot.....and i mean ALOT and not once is the breakfast at the hotel ( continental type) considered to replace your breakfast per diem. Your OR and CoC should be on top of that.

 

[Bintheredunthat]

Ah ha - another person that does it - but where is the black & white with justification?  Unfortunately, this is what I need to plead my case.

Reason I ask, is because the OR is the culprit all of a sudden for saying - "Nope" because of however it is that they read TD info.

I'd be happy to agree with whomever can really point me in the right direction.  ;D  Until then, a coffee & a muffin is costing me $13.45.

BTW - what do I get for my 100th post?

Bin

 

[George Wallace]

BTW - what do I get for my 100th post?

Bin

We will try to promise not to wack your peepee for your next five posts.


;D