Re: Volunteering

[army]

Posted by Ian Edwards <[email protected]> on Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:52:12 -0600
Ian again:
Easy to understand the legal position, but a sad commentary on today‘s
government cultural milieu. I suppose in some minds volunteering implies
that one is being coerced, or that the government is being too niggardly
with its pay if official volunteering is permitted. During the Interwar
Years that‘s 1920-39, kids the forerunner of our PRes the NPAM were
paid for summer camp Milcom, attendance at winter Royal Schools of
Instruction the original Militia Bums but for routine unit trg between
Sept - June each soldier received only a pair of streetcar tickets per
‘parade‘. Very few if any weekend exercises of course. But volunteers
they were. Damn few of them there were, actually, even up to early 1939.
So real volunteering didn‘t work and I don‘t expect pte/cpls to
volunteer now, but somehow the System should be designed to allow Sr
NCOs and Offrs to be covered in case of accidents when they volunteer.
CIC Officers only draw down 20 days each per year, maximum, and MANY of
them put in double/triple that and no word is spoken. I wonder what
happens when one of them is injured: a hurried submission of a pay
sheet? As far as the amount of paperwork for a reservist injuried on
"paid" time, I wonder out of ignorance how the bumpf compares with
civy street Workers‘ Compensation Board reports and perhaps? it‘s time
to bring the CF under WCB yeah, like that would ever happen!.
dave wrote:
>
> If you have ever been involved with a reservist injured while on "paid"
> time, you would understand the nightmare if they are injured
> while"volunteering". Our gov. tries to weasel and evade proper compensation
> and/or rehab for regulars injured in the line of duty, they jump through
> amazing hoops to delay/avoid/refuse reservists in the same situation.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> "> >I think Steve K. confirmed my understanding about not being able to
> > >volunteer time. Actually, I had heard the word from members of his own
> > >regiment but wonder if this is a case of one intrepretation for one
> > >brigade group and a different intrepretation/enforcement for another? In
> > >today‘s Dilbert cartoon there is an employee who asks to be taken from
> > >full time to part time employment. The boss says, yes provided she is
> > >still available for rush projects etc. Dilbert tells the employee she
> > >has just, in effect, taken a 50 cut in pay per hour. Well, that‘s
> > >reality on civy street not counting unionized jobs. One works to
> > >accomplish the job not count the hours, and it is DISGRACEFUL if
> > >soldiers, particularly Sr NCOs and Officers in the PRes, are not allowed
> > >to volunteer "time" to accomplish what is needed and forget any legal bs
> > >about liability."
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
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[army]

Posted by [email protected] on Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:42:34 EDT
Greetings, all...
Since this interesting thread on Reserves started, I‘ve not seen any
reference to "retirement points". In the Yank Army Reserve, we have a unique
and low cost way to deal with the "unpaid volunteer" issue. We are allowed
to drill, complete correspondence training courses, and prepare for training
exercises i.e. staff work, in return for retirement points. A reservist
must gain 50 points per year for that year to be credited towards retirement.
Each full day of paid active duty=1 point. However, other activities as
mentioned above gain no pay, but points only. Some units are formed strictly
to accomodate reservists the opportunity to regularly accumulate necessary
points, especially when active duty for training ADT and Annual Training
AT funds are closely rationed.
The points do have a financial payoff...There are no limits to the points one
can earn each year. Once a retired reservist begins to draw retirement pay
at age 62, the retirement pay is calculated by a formula that multiplies the
number of total retirement points by a certain amount. That factor is
determined by rank, so a SGM gets .5 cent per point, and a LtCol receives 4
cents per point...and so on.
Plus, when you are drilling for points, on an organized drill nightand are
injured, you are covered by military medical insurance. You are not covered
if you should receive serious paper cuts while taking a correspondence
course, however!
Perhaps this system could be adopted for your forces, as it provides real
compensation that will pay off in your "golden years", at a minimal up-front
cost to the government. Bureaucrats always love that part!
Keep the faith...
Dave Hall
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[army]

Posted by Ian Edwards <[email protected]> on Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:32:16 -0600
Dave Hall from Ian Edwards:
Interesting way of doing business. The day-by-day portion sounds
complicated but worthy of some study.
BTW, I wonder if you could do ME a favour and perhaps others might be
interested in telling us the difference in the duties, training,
responsiblities, organization, etc. BETWEEN your National Guard and your
Army Reserve. I think we are all aware that your NG is funded by each
local State, but beyond that I don‘t know how they really differ in
purpose, etc. I‘d need more than 25 words and two box tops but perhaps
the answer might require a complete thesis. Something inbetween might
act to provoke some outside-the-box thinking for us up here.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Greetings, all...
> Since this interesting thread on Reserves started, I‘ve not seen any
> reference to "retirement points". In the Yank Army Reserve, we have a unique
> and low cost way to deal with the "unpaid volunteer" issue. We are allowed
> to drill, complete correspondence training courses, and prepare for training
> exercises i.e. staff work, in return for retirement points. A reservist
> must gain 50 points per year for that year to be credited towards retirement.
> Each full day of paid active duty=1 point. However, other activities as
> mentioned above gain no pay, but points only. Some units are formed strictly
> to accomodate reservists the opportunity to regularly accumulate necessary
> points, especially when active duty for training ADT and Annual Training
> AT funds are closely rationed.
> The points do have a financial payoff...There are no limits to the points one
> can earn each year. Once a retired reservist begins to draw retirement pay
> at age 62, the retirement pay is calculated by a formula that multiplies the
> number of total retirement points by a certain amount. That factor is
> determined by rank, so a SGM gets .5 cent per point, and a LtCol receives 4
> cents per point...and so on.
> Plus, when you are drilling for points, on an organized drill nightand are
> injured, you are covered by military medical insurance. You are not covered
> if you should receive serious paper cuts while taking a correspondence
> course, however!
> Perhaps this system could be adopted for your forces, as it provides real
> compensation that will pay off in your "golden years", at a minimal up-front
> cost to the government. Bureaucrats always love that part!
> Keep the faith...
> Dave Hall
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[army]

Posted by [email protected] on Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:46:42 EDT
I‘m not an expert on the National Guard, since I served all my time between
the Regular Army and the Reserves...but in a nutshell, the National Guard
equates to the "well-regulated militia" mentioned in our constitution. As a
state military force, they are primarily called into service for domestic
emergencies i.e. natural disasters, civil unrest. They can be federalized
for deployment to other states, or overseas during a national mobilization.
Officers in the NG carry both a state commission and a reserve commission.
Each state‘s forces and to my knowledge, there are only Army and Air
National Guard units...no Navy or Marines are under the command of a state
Adjutant General, who is appointed by the governor. It is a Major General‘s
slot. Promotions in the NG are based on available slots, although I believe
that persons promoted must also meet the same requirements i.e. completion
of service courses as the reserve folks.
Traditionally, National Guard units were combat arms branch, while reserve uni
ts were combat support or CSS. After the Gulf War, there was a movement to
do away with most NG combat arms units, turning them into CSS outfits. That
hasn‘t really happened yet.
Obviously, there is a political component to promotion and assignment in the
NG that is not present in the reserves. The atmosphere is closer to the
"Good Old Boy" network of the 1930s-70s. Our republican candidate for
president, George W. Bush, wangled a safe job in a NG squadron in Texas
thanks to his daddy‘s influence with the governor...thereby keeping him out
of the draft and from going to Vietnam. Of course, he still served, versus
our current president...but I digress...
NG units are organized into battalions and brigades, and in some cases,
divisions, with the same structure as regular force units. or sqdns, etc.
I hope that this answers some of your questions. If any of you want more
detail, I would be happy to locate and post website addresses for NG
organizations.
Regards,
Dave
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[army]

Posted by Ian Edwards <[email protected]> on Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:56:08 -0600
Ian Edwards to Mr. Hall:
Thanks for the overveiw on your National Guard. To answer all my
questions in depth would take volumes so perhaps I can switch my query
to focus on your Army Reserve. Since we up here have been having some
discussion about days of pay per year, etc. could you enlighten usme
on some of the following and we can all compare it.
Potential questions:
a. Do enrolment requirements physical, age, education vary in your
Res from your Reg Force?
b How many days training are permitted per year for "normal" res.
soldiers i.e. similar to our Class A, not including our Class Bs and Cs
who are on "call out" for continuous special duties, special trg? How
are the days‘ allotment usually broken down vis-a vis summer
camps/concentrations or day-at-a-time training from say Sept to June.
c Are there any differences between Res Regs in time-in-rank for
promotion, differences between course standards, duration of courses for
the same qualifications?
d How is recruiting done for local units, ie. is it all in the hands of
a much larger amorphious nation-wide recruiting organization or does
each "unit" have an opportunity to preach the merits of the "good old
212th Maine Battalion"or whatever with a local flavour.
e What is the attrition like in your Res a difficult question to
answer without bias - but go ahead and what, on unit levels and on
paper, works best to retain membership?
I don‘t expect or want long answers, just some general food for thought
also if you can say so without fear of Big Brother you thoughts of
what works and doesn‘t down your way ie. what we could be trying or
should avoid making the same mistakes.
Anyone else out there with your own Reserve experience, eg Australia, UK
, continental Europe, New Zealand, etc. please feel free to jump in with
your own considerations.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I‘m not an expert on the National Guard, since I served all my time between
> the Regular Army and the Reserves...but in a nutshell, the National Guard
> equates to the "well-regulated militia" mentioned in our constitution. As a
> state military force, they are primarily called into service for domestic
> emergencies i.e. natural disasters, civil unrest. They can be federalized
> for deployment to other states, or overseas during a national mobilization.
> Officers in the NG carry both a state commission and a reserve commission.
> Each state‘s forces and to my knowledge, there are only Army and Air
> National Guard units...no Navy or Marines are under the command of a state
> Adjutant General, who is appointed by the governor. It is a Major General‘s
> slot. Promotions in the NG are based on available slots, although I believe
> that persons promoted must also meet the same requirements i.e. completion
> of service courses as the reserve folks.
> Traditionally, National Guard units were combat arms branch, while reserve uni
> ts were combat support or CSS. After the Gulf War, there was a movement to
> do away with most NG combat arms units, turning them into CSS outfits. That
> hasn‘t really happened yet.
> Obviously, there is a political component to promotion and assignment in the
> NG that is not present in the reserves. The atmosphere is closer to the
> "Good Old Boy" network of the 1930s-70s. Our republican candidate for
> president, George W. Bush, wangled a safe job in a NG squadron in Texas
> thanks to his daddy‘s influence with the governor...thereby keeping him out
> of the draft and from going to Vietnam. Of course, he still served, versus
> our current president...but I digress...
> NG units are organized into battalions and brigades, and in some cases,
> divisions, with the same structure as regular force units. or sqdns, etc.
> I hope that this answers some of your questions. If any of you want more
> detail, I would be happy to locate and post website addresses for NG
> organizations.
> Regards,
> Dave
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[army]

Posted by [email protected] on Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:07:40 EDT
Ian,
In general, enlistment requirements are the same for reserves as for regular
forces. The difference comes when active force soldiers/sailors/airmen
transfer into the reserves. There are 4 different status levels for members
of the reserve: active as on extended active duty to attend service
schools Ready Reserve, where members are part of a unit TPU and drill one
weekend per month, plus a 2-3 week Annual Training. officers and senior
NCO‘s usually have one or two staff meetings per month, where they are not
paid, but do earn the aforementioned retirement points Individual
Mobilization Augmentees IMA also drill periodically, but do so with either
an active unit, or a government staff agency such as FEMA Fed. Emergency Mgt
Agency. If mobilized, IMAs report to that unit or agency. Finally, there
is the Individual Ready Reserve IRR. Members try to earn points throughout
the year, and compete for limited active duty for training opportunities.
The only limitations on how much drill and active duty time a reservist can
serve are based on funding. Again, there are a lot of opportunities to go on
active duty if one doesn‘t mind weird deployments on short notice. It also
helps to know someone at the Reserve HQ!
Time in grade requirements for promotion are almost double that of the active
force, but the professional education requirements are the same. Promotions
of senior NCOs and officers are managed at the Army Reserve Personnel Center
ARPERCEN, as are assignments.
Recruiting is a hit-or-miss effort. Although many reserve units have a proud
heritage with service in most of our wars, we Yanks don‘t do a very good job
of maintaining traditions...except for the Marine Corps. Often times,
ARPERCEN will send out rosters of personnel newly-released from active duty,
or in the IRR. Units will send mass mailings in the hope of enticing new
members. Retention efforts have improved, and reservists have much the same
benefits PX, commissary, group life insurance, space available travel
privileges as active members. The pay for unit members is pretty good. As
a Major, I earned approx. $10-12k per year. And the ultimate goal of
obtaining a "20 year letter", with retirement benefits at age 62, is a
powerful incentive to stick around. Plus you know how this stuff gets in
your blood!
Please let me know if you desire any additional information...a lot of the
good points of the U.S. Reserve program would transfer well to Canada, and
believe it or not, the administration of retirement points is not awfully
difficult or time consuming at the unit level...all accounting is done at
ARPERCEN, who sends out yearly statements to reservists. Units do have full
time staff, who handle this function.
Dave
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