Rebuild Basic Officer training: {SPLIT from:] Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[Haggis]

Yeah, that was my use of “system” above, but yes, there is a problem, and they (GOFOs who continue to support those of such ilk as BGen Friday) remain a large part of the problem.

I worked with him when he was a Maj in ADM (IM). Back then I was impressed. Now, I'm just disappointed....again.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Usually I like Rory Fowlers articles - I don't always agree with him, but that post was utter tripe.

I read the Ottawa Citizen article - it makes me weep, but I am not shocked at all.
For those who watch Yellowstone - I think the CF should adopt the "Long Black Train" HR Model to deal with this issue...

Speaking of which...

They did a really bad job of disposing of 'the evidence' with that approach. They could learn something from the Sopranos

 

[ballz]

If that's how a LCol in a Commandant position is supported, imagine being a Sect Comd or Pl Comd, or in a random staff position, and trying to do the right thing.....

 

[Jarnhamar]

“We're listening, we hear you".

 

[daftandbarmy]

“We're listening, we hear you".

About that phrase (which I hate ):

I hear you​

or I hear what you’re saying
used for telling someone that you understand their opinion, especially when you disagree with it

I HEAR YOU (phrase) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

Definition of I HEAR YOU (phrase): used for saying you understand someone’s opinion; used for agreeing with what someone says

www.macmillandictionary.com

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Mark Popov is proof that this is all just spin doctoring. It is going to take catastrophic failure for the CAF to be fixed. We aren't anywhere near that point yet.

I mean it's not like we don't have a long history of incompetent Military Leadership in this Country:

 

[Halifax Tar]

Mark Popov is proof that this is all just spin doctoring. It is going to take catastrophic failure for the CAF to be fixed. We aren't anywhere near that point yet.

I mean it's not like we don't have a long history of incompetent Military Leadership in this Country:

How well were our GO/FOs regarded during WW2 ?

 

[OldSolduer]

How well were our GO/FOs regarded during WW2 ?

If my memory is correct they were not well regarded amongst British generals. Guy Simmons was the youngest Div Comd I believe and somewhat accepted but iirc not many were.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

How well were our GO/FOs regarded during WW2 ?

We have a history of replacing our leadership whenever it's time to start actually fighting.

Andrew McNaughton in WWII was widely considered to be unfit for Command. He looked down and in as opposed to up and out.

We tend to discover who the actual warfighters are and promote them accordingly after the shooting starts. That's because a peacetime military requires managers and bureaucrats, not fighters.

Bert Hoffmeister began WWII as a Major and retired a Major-General. Make of that what you will.

Foulkes, Simonds and others have similar backgrounds. All were Majors at the beginning of the War.

 

[KevinB]

We have a history of replacing our leadership whenever it's time to start actually fighting.

And sweep those people under the rug as fast as one can after the shooting stops...

 

[OldSolduer]

McNaughton was not impressed with the Brits nor were they impressed with him according to the books I’ve read

 

[daftandbarmy]

We have a history of replacing our leadership whenever it's time to start actually fighting.

Andrew McNaughton in WWII was widely considered to be unfit for Command. He looked down and in as opposed to up and out.

We tend to discover who the actual warfighters are and promote them accordingly after the shooting starts. That's because a peacetime military requires managers and bureaucrats, not fighters.

Bert Hoffmeister began WWII as a Major and retired a Major-General. Make of that what you will.

Foulkes, Simonds and others have similar backgrounds. All were Majors at the beginning of the War.

My Dad, the WW2 gunner, noted that 'It took us three years to get rid of all the idiots'.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

If my memory is correct they were not well regarded amongst British generals. Guy Simmons was the youngest Div Comd I believe and somewhat accepted but iirc not many were.

Robert Moncel was the youngest General Officer in the Canadian Army and began the War as a Lieutenant. He became a Brigadier in 1944 at the age of 27 when he took command of the 4th Canadian Armoured Brigade and commanded them during the Normandy Campaign.

He was decorated for his actions during Operation Blockbuster. Cream rises to top.

A 27 year old Brigade Commander? The horror and gasps that would ensue in the 2021 Canadian Armed Forces would be astronomical LOL

I wonder if he did all his DLN mandatory training and got his French profile in order and had his minimum 3 MOI PERs before they promoted him?

 

[OldSolduer]

Robert Moncel was the youngest General Officer in the Canadian Army and began the War as a Lieutenant. He became a Brigadier in 1944 at the age of 27 when he took command of the 4th Canadian Armoured Brigade and commanded them during the Normandy Campaign.

He was decorated for his actions during Operation Blockbuster. Cream rises to top.

Your a much better historian than I. Thank you.

I did an OPME on the Dieppe Raid. I’ll have to find it one day

 

[daftandbarmy]

Your a much better historian than I. Thank you.

I did an OPME on the Dieppe Raid. I’ll have to find it one day

Scapegoat or not, I don't think they were keen on 51 year old Divisional Commanders (with no battle experience) after that one:

Vindicating ‘Ham’ Roberts

Canadian Gen. John Hamilton ‘Ham’ Roberts was the land-force commander in the doomed Dieppe raid, 75 years ago. Under his watch, nearly 1,000 men died in just six hours—and he lived out his days in infamy. But there's more to the story as we learn more about that ultra-secret raid, writes historian and author David O’Keefe—and it suggests that he was made a scapegoat

Vindicating ‘Ham’ Roberts, 75 years after Dieppe

Seventy-five years ago, Gen. 'Ham' Roberts led the doomed Dieppe raid—and lived out his days in infamy. But there's more to the story.

www.macleans.ca

 

[Edward Campbell]

How well were our GO/FOs regarded during WW2 ?

My personal opinion:

1. Senior Canadian Army leadership was pedestrian to weak; junior leadership, Moncel and Hoffmeister etc are good examples, was fair to outstanding;
2. RCAF Leadership was, generally, good but didn't have much chance to shine in operations because the biggest RCAF formation in battle was a Group, I think, but men like Leckie who organized and managed the Commonwealth Air Training plan were, clearly, first rate commanders/leaders/managers; and
3. The RCN had downright toxic leadership at the very top ~ Nelles and Jones ~ but, arguably, the BEST Canadian commander, ever, under any circumstances, was RAdm Leonard W Murray who may have done more to win WWII than all the other admirals and generals combined ... he was then hounded out of the Navy and the country because Jones told the politicians that he was to blame for the Halifax riots (that was a lie, Murray hod no command authority ashore in Halifax.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is an article out there today, that can't be mentioned here, about one of army.ca's former members being exonerated for his attempt to stop sexual misconduct at RMC.

Well done Mark......a pox on their houses.

Holy ja-bee-jee's, the story is almost unbelievable. Here's our new CDS..." “I acknowledge that he was not afforded procedural fairness in all circumstances.” Jesus christ...seriously? Nice reply, Spock.

Those shitpumps who got away because Daddy intervened and Friday was an empty uniform are in the system...anyone want to bet if they've 'seen the light'?

Aside from the expected Snr/GOFO running interference stuff....what the hell were the MPs up to exactly??

 

[OldSolduer]

Holy ja-bee-jee's, the story is almost unbelievable. Here's our new CDS..." “I acknowledge that he was not afforded procedural fairness in all circumstances.” Jesus christ...seriously?

Those shitpumps who got away because Daddy intervened and Friday was an empty uniform are in the system...anyone want to bet if they've 'seen the light'?

Aside from the expected Snr/GOFO running interference stuff....what the hell were the MPs up to exactly??

The CDS - no matter who he is and I admit I am biased in this case - can't say much more. Bland announcements that say little do not aid lawyers in their search for justice.

 

[KevinB]

what the hell were the MPs up to exactly??

PAO's and MP's are there to cover for the Brass.
The nature of the structure means they are beholden to the ones in power - and do what they are told.

 

[KevinB]

The CDS - no matter who he is and I admit I am biased in this case - can't say much more. Bland announcements that say little do not aid lawyers in their search for justice.

Yeah I think he's in a tough spot - personally I expected more from Gen. E, but public statements are often cleared by Legal and PA.
I would hope the CAF makes a direct outreach to Mark with a lot more than what was public.

I will say MGen Friday (ret) 's new job at sean-friday-joins-sts-pr STS Capital Partners hopefully gets a little rocky now -- and ever single one of his pictures either in uniform or out had always made me want to punch him in the face.