Recce Crewmen

[George Wallace]

What makes a good recce crewman?


Must be observant.

Must be able to use his initiative.

Must have good patrolling/stalking skills.

Must be able to use a map, compass and perhaps a GPS.

Must have weapons handling skills.

Must be a good tactical driver.

Must know tactics.

Must not dig up all the old posts in old threads on Army.ca  ;D

 

[Ranman]

You must put the mission first and remind yourself of that constantly when the going gets tuff.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I think initiative was the biggest one. Hit an OP, if it's no good... have an alternative OP ready. if that is no good, inform your chain of command, and take iniative, and find a better location. None of this "Sit down and wait to be told where to go" BS.

Rant off...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Shortbus,

Where you site your OP has always been the Ptl Cmdrs discretion. You should never be told exactly where to place it. As long as you get eyes on, it's up the the Ptl Cmdr how, within guidelines (like mvmt fwd). Another part of the OP occupation drill IS definining and developing your alternate.

 

[Gayson]

I would say a Recce Crewman should have good field craft skills.  Properly using the ground and foliage can go a long way to having an excellent OP or patrol base.  Or would this fit under tactics?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Proper use of the ground is a given. You guys will start learning more of this on your DP2. Wait for it.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Shortbus,

Where you site your OP has always been the Ptl Cmdrs discretion. You should never be told exactly where to place it. As long as you get eyes on, it's up the the Ptl Cmdr how, within guidelines (like mvmt fwd). Another part of the OP occupation drill IS definining and developing your alternate.

From what I've seen, Troopy has always been the one who called the shots concerning where to place OP's. Not so much "Under this tree" per say, but for instance, "On this hill". Once we get to that hill, and realise there is a treeline obstructing our view, we've then sat and waited for a response over means as to where to place our OP, seeing as both our primary and Alternative OP's were a no-go. IMO, troopy CANNOT see what you see, therefore... why not use your own discretion and initiative and do your job?!

But then again, Im only a Pte. and my exposure to such things, being above my level is incredibly limited. (so I could be dead wrong)

Gayson is DP2 already  ;D

 

[TCBF]

In conventional operations, you are never given an OP.  You are given a mission.  If the OP is at Ptl level, the Ptl Comd will find the best place to site the OP and alternate.  At that point, he will decide wether the Op will be dismounted (mud), mounted, tripod, or mast, as well as whether the radar and electro-optics will both be used.  The Coyote uses the 'Toolbox' method:  only the min surv gear is deployed to accomplish the mission.  this is because the kit is easily detected, bulky, and time consuming to erect and stow.  The patrol is most vulnerable when setting up and tearing down all of that gear. 

If your mission is to have eyes on a target (OT/OA/NAI/TAI?whatever) ONLY the OP commander can determine how that will be done.  Anything else violates our doctrine.

In OOTW, other issues and sensitivities may dictate otherwise, particularly in an overt OP.  But in a covert OP in conventional ops, only the man on the ground can pick the OP.  Bear in mind, the mine, chemical and other threats may limit your options on some operations.

Tom

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

In conventional operations, you are never given an OP.  You are given a mission.  If the OP is at Ptl level, the Ptl Comd will find the best place to site the OP and alternate.  At that point, he will decide wether the Op will be dismounted (mud), mounted, tripod, or mast, as well as whether the radar and electro-optics will both be used.  The Coyote uses the 'Toolbox' method:  only the min surv gear is deployed to accomplish the mission.  this is because the kit is easily detected, bulky, and time consuming to erect and stow.  The patrol is most vulnerable when setting up and tearing down all of that gear. 

If your mission is to have eyes on a target (OT/OA/NAI/TAI?whatever) ONLY the OP commander can determine how that will be done.  Anything else violates our doctrine.

In OOTW, other issues and sensitivities may dictate otherwise, particularly in an overt OP.  But in a covert OP in conventional ops, only the man on the ground can pick the OP.  Bear in mind, the mine, chemical and other threats may limit your options on some operations.

Tom

Understood, thanks for that.

Being a reservist, I've only exposure to Mud Recce and Mounted (Iltis), so it's interesting to gain a better perspective on the larger scale conductions used by the reg's.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

As Tom stated, it is one of the true skills a recce patrol commander must have, the ability to site an OP to meet the mission requirements, without being detected.  And believe me, it is a true skill.  One has to ALWAYS be able, in his minds eye, to see the OP from the enemies perspective.  All this of course, without going forward to actually SEE it from the enemies perspective.  Once eyes are on the ground, the work starts. 

At the risk of getting everyone on the board really mad at me, I have found that soldiers hailing from small town/rural Canada seem to be better at concealment and general recce skills.  The big city people seem to have problems with their sense of direction, most likely because of lack of exposure to open ground without streets.  The small town/rural people also, as a general rule, have been out in the woods and mud, hunting, fishing, making out, whatever.  Again, as a general rule, they can be rather adept at what may be called "expedient repairs".

That's not to say that good recce skills cannot be taught to all, it's just that I found that the "hicks" start with a leg up.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Must be why the Aurora QYRangs are so much better than the Toronto QYRangs  ;D

 

[Gayson]

Proper use of the ground is a given. You guys will start learning more of this on your DP2. Wait for it.

Shortbus and I have already completed DP2.

[EDIT] oops, I didn't see shortbus's post about the course. . .

 

[Old Ranger]

Must have the ability to create gourmet meals, utilizing different parts of the engine as cooking surfaces ;D

 

[DG-41]

On the topic of the troop leader siting OPs:

As part of my battle procedure, I'll pick what I think might be a good OP site for each patrol off the map (I almost never get an opportunity to see the OP site first, as time for battle procedure is usually too short) and I've had pretty good success with that, in so far as the actual OP site tends to be pretty close to where I picked it in most cases. But the Patrol Commander is not at all bound by that - it's just a suggestion. Depending on the ground, it might be completely invalid. The Patrol Commander gets to site the OP where he wants it.

Now the *ultimate* responsibility for the OP location is mine, should the one the Patrol Commander chose be tactically unsound. If I honestly feel that the OP location won't get the job done, I have the right (the responsibility) to move it. I have done this exactly once, with a Ptl Cmdr who was doing his first ever OP after the unit changed over from Sabre to Recce. It's not something you do casually; moving an OP is a pretty serious rebuke to the Ptl Cmdr.

I had one Charlie who was an absolute master at finding buildings to site his OP in. It became a kind of game with us; I'd assign Charlie Patrol the OT that I thought had the smallest probability of having a suitable building nearby, and that crafty SOB would always manage to find something that worked. Had he ever chosen a spot that was tactically unsound I'd've busted him out of there in a heartbeat, but every time he pulled it off the position was obviously correct. And hey - more power to him! If you can get the mission done and keep the lads comfortable at the same time, then you're doing your job.

As far as what makes a good Recce crewman: intelligence, initiative, imagination, and above all, self discipline. Recce crews spend a lot of time operating alone and unsupervised. It is very easy for an undisciplined crew/patrol to sluff off, do things half-assed, and otherwise suffer from "The Cat's Away Syndrome". It takes a high level of self discipline and professionalism to do the job the right way (instead of the easy way) even when nobody is watching, the enemy is notional, and the weather sucks.

DG

 

[Old Ranger]