recognition of previous navy qualifications

[aussiechangover]

I've been trying to chase this up for a while and I have had no joy. I figured the best place to get a decent lead where I could direct my supervisors would be here.

I'm trying to find out if I can wear my Australian submariner dolphins on my DEU. Also if an equivalency would  or could be given as I first qualified on Oberon class subs then to Collins class. I know I would have to at some point do the conversion for the Victoria class but as I'm a purple trade it's probably not a high concern for my trade to make that happen right now, as far as I know there are no plans to send us on subs at the moment.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I'm trying to find out if I can wear my Australian submariner dolphins on my DEU. Also if an equivalency would  or could be given as I first qualified on Oberon class subs then to Collins class. I know I would have to at some point do the conversion for the Victoria class but as I'm a purple trade it's probably not a high concern for my trade to make that happen right now, as far as I know there are no plans to send us on subs at the moment.

Canadian Navy practice is not to wear foreign qualification badges.  Many Canadian submariners are qualified aboard Australian, British, and Dutch submarines but only wear the CF Submariner badge.  I don't know of a reference that permits the wearing of foreign dolphins but the question comes up from time to time and is always denied.

Also if an equivalency would  or could be given as I first qualified on Oberon class subs then to Collins class.

Request a Prior Learning Assessment and it will determine whether you can wear CF dolphins.  My gut feeling is 'yes' but best to go through the paperwork just in case you're challenged on it.  If you PM me your MCAN email address then I'll give you the contact details on a good starting point in the SM community.

PS:  I'm somewhat surprised you didn't get your equivalencies granted as part of your enrollment.

 

[aussiechangover]

PS:  I'm somewhat surprised you didn't get your equivalencies granted as part of your enrollment.

I'm not surprised at all my entire paperwork has been a nightmare it's taken 3 years to get some answers i'll pm you my dwan email so if you can help as to where to start would be much appreciated

 

[Acer Syrup]

Don't know if this helps:

FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES
14. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CF, shall wear the applicable CF badge according to wear instructions in paragraphs 7. and 8. and Annex B.
15. Where an equivalent CF badge has not been designed or approved for wear, the allied country badge presented for the prescribed qualification shall be worn like a CF badge according to wear instructions In paragraphs 7. and 8. and Annex B. If wearing both a CF badge and a foreign badge, the CF badge shall take precedence. The following prescribed foreign qualification badges are authorized for wear on the CF uniform:
United States Army Ranger Badge (a sleeve badge); and
United States Army Special Forces Badge (a sleeve badge).

16. equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CF, and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned. Foreign badges shall be positioned as follows:

a. Navy (Blue Service Dress Jacket). Centred 0.6 cm (1/4 in.) below the name tag, displacing downward any command badge worn.
b. Navy (High Collared White Jacket), Army and Air Force. Centred on the right breast pocket, above and evenly spaced with any command badge.
c. Mess Dress. A single miniature metal foreign flying, or specialist skill badge may be worn on mess dress under the same circumstances as the full size version on service dress. Naval personnel may wear foreign miniatures, but only of a cloth format.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I am not questioning anyone but I was always led to believe that NO foreign issued badges, medals or anything else was authorized with CF dress. I assume your quote comes from the Dress Manual? I am curious what CFB Halifax's current Base Chief would say - For those on here who don't know him, he has what one may call a very colourful vocabulary!
BTW Acer Syrup, I checked out your "favourite thread" - you guys were hilarious!!! I wonder what happenned to that poor young gentleman/lady! - Probably flipping burgers in some little town in Nebraska!

 

[AmmoTech90]

I am not questioning anyone but I was always led to believe that NO foreign issued badges, medals or anything else was authorized with CF dress. I assume your quote comes from the Dress Manual? I am curious what CFB Halifax's current Base Chief would say - For those on here who don't know him, he has what one may call a very colourful vocabulary!
BTW Acer Syrup, I checked out your "favourite thread" - you guys were hilarious!!! I wonder what happenned to that poor young gentleman/lady! - Probably flipping burgers in some little town in Nebraska!

You can wear foreign specialist qualifications badges as shown above, basically unless it is the Ranger or SF tab you can only wear it when visiting the relevant country, or when being hosted by that country at a function in Canada.

Foreign medals are worn as Canadian ones, once you have been authorized to do, and always on the outside edge of the rack with regard to precedence.  I don't know how a foreign valour medal would be worn as they take precedence over campaign type medals, but they are rarely awarded to or accepted by foreign nationals.

I'm sure the Base Chief would politely question you and then congratulate you on earning that properly worn qualification.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

"I'm sure the Base Chief would politely question you and then congratulate you on earning that properly worn qualification."

You obviously don't know Spike!!!!

Alas though - You learn something new every day - Okay, my head's full. Can I go home now!

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I swear I am like a dog with a bone on these things! I have read and re-read (and re-read again) the instruction on this and must say no, you cannot wear your foreign service dolphins with any order of CF dress.  As for wearing it when in the host country, not sure where that is coming from. Again, having said that, there could be an obscure CANFORGEN. The direction in the Dress Instruction lists the Ranger and SF ONLY and no others. Even our own 'O' Boat qualified submarines need to requal to VIC class.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Para 15 covers the Ranger/SF tabs.  They can be worn all the time.  The paragraph provides for when other badges may be authorized for wear all the time.  This only applies to qualification badges that do not have a CF equivalent.

Para 16 covers all other badges awarded by foreign courses where there is a CF equivalent course  OR qualification badge.  For example, Ammunition Technical Officers.  We do not train them here in Canada, they attend a course in the UK.  They are awarded the UK ATO badge on completion of the course in the UK.  When they get to Canada they wear the CF ATO badge, not the UK one.  If they were to attend a mess dinner at the British Consulate, they could put up the UK ATO badge for that event only.
I would assume that the dolphins would be the same.  A CF submariner would normally wear only the CF dolphins, but if they had attended the UK course and been awarded the UK dolpins they would put those up as well if they went back and worked in the UK.

As far as the order of dress goes, you would only wear it with service dress (DEU) or mess dress, not NCDs

This is the extract from the dress manual (para 16) that allows the wearing of foreign badges.

and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored

 

[MARS]

Para 16 covers all other badges awarded by foreign courses where there is a CF equivalent course  OR qualification badge.  For example, Ammunition Technical Officers.  We do not train them here in Canada, they attend a course in the UK.  They are awarded the UK ATO badge on completion of the course in the UK.  When they get to Canada they wear the CF ATO badge, not the UK one. 

I didn't read it that way.  I read it as " equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CF,"

...not "where there is an equivalant CF course".  This appears to be why ATOs where a Cdn badge after earning a UK qual - we sent them on the course.

Nor does it appear to meet the requirement of the part that states "...and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country..."

His Aussie dolphins wouldn't be "honourary" qualification badges.

I agree with Pat, I don't think they can be worn.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Agreed, I sort of went off track and forgot the original question.  If he received the qualification while not in the CF it probably wouldn't qualify under this.