Reconstitution

[RangerRay]

I have heard some dits about why we don't take cadets to sea with us anymore.

Something about sea cadets, a trip to Oz; and coming back screwed, lewd and tattooed.

Apparently this didn't sit well with the parents.

I thought that was the whole point of cadets…

 

[FSTO]

And feeding them from various angles of attack, sometimes as part of WGs. I was joking about going as a 'good idea fairy' for Halloween, but sometimes feels that way.

We had a Halloween party at C-Navy and one of the DNP guys came as the Good Idea Fairy.

 

[MilEME09]

I thought that was the whole point of cadets…

90s unfortunately had a lot of incidents that negatively impacted the program

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It is well past the point where there's an ability to reduce wear and tear on the ships. Their physical state is such that significant time and effort is required on even the ones in best condition to keep them limping along until the first of the River class arrives.

I get that it's a more than a bit late, but by reducing the use now, you slow down the wear and tear and squeeze a bit more longevity out of the hulls and save them for an actual conflict if the Rivers are not yet in sufficient numbers.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I get that it's a more than a bit late, but by reducing the use now, you slow down the wear and tear and squeeze a bit more longevity out of the hulls and save them for an actual conflict if the Rivers are not yet in sufficient numbers.

So, we shouldn't deploy them overseas for 7 months if their hulls have issues that result in maximum sea state restrictions?

That ship has sailed.

 

[Lumber]

So, we shouldn't deploy them overseas for 7 months if their hulls have issues that result in maximum sea state restrictions?

That ship has sailed.

Literally!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Literally!

My 'favourite' was the 280 that had a SS 2 restriction (because DGMEPM didn't want to say tie it up), meaning you can go out of the harbour or something, but the RCN took that to mean they can send it to the UK as the flagship if they avoid the weather (they didn't).

Ironically the main engines failed and they spent the entire JOINT WARRIOR (and then some) stuck alongside in London, England waiting for repairs (and however many millions that cost).

But at least that was an exercise, and not a real deployment; now it's on ships doing Active Endeavour, in the Pacific and other spots where you can routinely get bad weather, in addition to being in proximity to wildcards like Russia and NK.

 

[FSTO]

^^
We can’t tell the truth. We might embarrass the government of the day.

 

[dapaterson]

^^
We can’t tell the truth. We might embarrass the government of the day.

We can't tell the truth because we haven't up 'til now, so why start?

 

[Lumber]

My 'favourite' was the 280 that had a SS 2 restriction (because DGMEPM didn't want to say tie it up), meaning you can go out of the harbour or something, but the RCN took that to mean they can send it to the UK as the flagship if they avoid the weather (they didn't).

Ironically the main engines failed and they spent the entire JOINT WARRIOR (and then some) stuck alongside in London, England waiting for repairs (and however many millions that cost).

But at least that was an exercise, and not a real deployment; now it's on ships doing Active Endeavour, in the Pacific and other spots where you can routinely get bad weather, in addition to being in proximity to wildcards like Russia and NK.

ATH in..2017?

 

[Furniture]

ATH in..2017?

I'm pretty sure it was 2015. I was sailing in WIN at the time, and we were doing a Reassurance/Active Endeavor, so were part of the exercise as well.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm pretty sure it was 2015. I was sailing in WIN at the time, and we were doing a Reassurance/Active Endeavor, so were part of the exercise as well.

That sounds about right; I think a bit before that IRO got stuck in Boston (2014?) after tripping a bunch of longitudinals from sailing into a storm that exceeded her SS limitations, which were in place to avoid exactly that kind of failure from a bunch of known cracks and other structural issues. I want to say the final nail in her coffin happened around 2016 when there was a fire in the AMR, and then when they were cleaning up a transformer fire started in the heavy workshop (basically the same compartment where they staged hoses to fight the AMR fire, but tucked away in a corner).

I was at the 280/tanker class desk at the time, so between the PRE DWP warranty claims, ATH DWP, tow, PRE allision (with the ISI floating drydock), PRO/ALG collision, PRO tow, PRE turning into an alongside fueler and some other issues a lot of it blends together, as we spent a lot of time briefing the DG and others, with a few BNs up to the MND etc. We also drafted the AJISS RFP, put together the disposal plans, and did a few other things, so learned a lot (sometimes painfully).

Not sure if it was this particular trip or a similar issue around the same time, but tracked down this old cbc story.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hmcs-athabaskan-sent-back-to-halifax-for-major-engine-repairs-1.3160864

HMCS Athabaskan sent back to Halifax for major engine repairs​

In a funny note, came across a story on the ATH DWP in St. Catherines, where the DWP costs went from $21.7M from $26.7M due to arising work, and it was seen as expensive for a 40 year old ship, going into it's last operational cycle. Probably $1M of that was 'nice to haves' like tile replacement (to check the steel deck underneath of course), replacing worn insulation and pipe lagging (can't have mold), cleaning ducting (again, mold), crew lounge repairs etc.

A decade later, we are talking about DWPs costing 20 times that for 30 year old ships, for just the same basic hull, mechanical and electrical repairs, and thinking they'll last 15 more years. Interesting.

 

[Blackadder1916]

The number of slots to earn your pilots license while in the Air Cadets is quite limited.

It's a great thing to strive for, and the Glider Pilot program inparticular is pretty cool.

But going into the Air Cadets thinking they'll help one to get their license is...overly optimistic. It CAN happen, but the number of Cadets who want it vs the number of Cadets who get it is a staggering ratio

If the Air Cadet League is to believed, the programme's effect in "promoting and encouraging the nation’s youth to develop and maintain an interest in aviation, leadership and citizenship" is not insignificant.

History - Air Cadet League of Canada

The Early Days – 1940’s To understand why and how the Air Cadet League of Canada came into being, it …Read More »

aircadetleague.com

The Air Cadet Gliding Program involves the efforts of many people at all levels: the Directorate of Cadets and the National Air Technical Authority at NDHQ, Air Cadet League Headquarters in Ottawa, Regional CIC and Air Cadet staff personnel, and of course, the many Air Cadet League volunteers in the provinces and territories. Figures received on a regular basis from Transport Canada and the Airline Pilots Association, Canada reveal that one out of every five Private Pilots in Canada at the present time is an ex-Air Cadet and 67 percent of the Commercial/Airline Pilots flying today got their start in Air Cadets. No statistics are available on how many Air Cadets join the Canadian Forces; however, it is estimated that 28% of the flying, technical and administrative members serving in the Air Force today had some form of Air Cadet training. Even more important, the failure rate among ex-Air Cadets joining the service is almost nil.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You (RCN) would have cut back your commitments and accept some of the hard reality. You could do mini refits and cycle the CFP that are capable into the operational role, but reduce the numbers so you can swap out crews. It would mean you have to change how you are doing things. But going what I see here, your going to crash and burn anyways.

Just a pedantic point, the RCN doesn't make commitments. The GoC does and we follow them through.

The RCNs role is to advise frankly and honestly to the GoC about what we can accomplish, safely.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We can't tell the truth because we haven't up 'til now, so why start?

CRCNs YouTube video was a step in the right direction.

 

[childs56]

I still find it hard to believe a ship yard can not perform a structural fix on a ships hull that makes it as good as new or better.
Engine mechanical problems are even harder to understand why those can't be fixed. Bad engine put a new one in. Bad gear box install a new one.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I still find it hard to believe a ship yard can not perform a structural fix on a ships hull that makes it as good as new or better.
Engine mechanical problems are even harder to understand why those can't be fixed. Bad engine put a new one in. Bad gear box install a new one.

Have you seen a CPF gearbox?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Have you seen a CPF gearbox?

Not to mention we aren't exactly overwhelmed with how many spares we have laying around...

 

[PrairieFella]

CDS/DM Directive 002 CAF Reconstitution - Canada.ca

This directive builds on the work begun under our previous directive issued in September 2022. The main effort to reconstitute the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) will continue to be accomplished via two phases that span until at least 2030: Recover and Rebuild.

www.canada.ca

New reconstitution directives.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I still find it hard to believe a ship yard can not perform a structural fix on a ships hull that makes it as good as new or better.
Engine mechanical problems are even harder to understand why those can't be fixed. Bad engine put a new one in. Bad gear box install a new one.

To ‘simply’ exchange a gearbox you basically need to disassemble the ship. Nothing is quick or easy with the scale of equipment involved.

These ‘structural fixes’ your talking about basically involve replacing the whole vehicle.

Imagine you have a car with a heavily rusted frame. How do you fix it? Do you replace the whole car or do you attempt to weld on plates to the messed up frame? Yeah technically you can replace everything but at some point you end up with a ‘new vehicle’ and was it cost effective to end up there?

Ships are a whole different scale of things. Simple example being fuel consumption. A CPF burns 1500L of diesel a hour on the cruising engine and when running the two gas turbines burns 11000L of fuel a hour. They literally measure the fuel tanks by cubic meters of fuel, not by litres.